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  #21  
Old 9 September 2013, 17:35
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What commerical rounds are recommended for self defense?
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  #22  
Old 11 September 2013, 09:29
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10mm Ammo

Widerners has 10mm ammo fr $20 a box. This Prvi partisan is good ammo with great brass for reloading
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  #23  
Old 11 September 2013, 18:54
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Commercial loads

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What commerical rounds are recommended for self defense?
Jeff Cooper envisioned a 200gr bullet @ about 900 fps.

Bill Jordan felt the ideal load, was a .41 caliber, loaded to between 1200-1300 fps w/a 200gr semi-wadcutter bullet.

I've gone all in w/Bill, using the 10mm (ie .40 Cal). Either a 200gr Hornady XTP or WFNGC @ between 1200-1300 fps. The 155gr gr Barnes bullet throws a internal/external/terminal ballistics curve ball into the choices (ie larger than a 200gr lead bullet, solid copper HP). A Barnes 155gr HP @ between 1200-1400 fps has very similar if not better terminal performance, from my testing...and the muzzle lift is significantly less; w/a comp,...forget about it.

Commercially, who makes that stuff: Underwood, Double-Tap, Wilson, Buffalo Bore. Are their advertised velocities going to be produced by your gun? You would have to run it through a chrono.

Good shooting
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  #24  
Old 30 September 2013, 23:46
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Bought one last year and it is my new "keep in the car" gun.

Research on the 10 MM led me to be a big fan.

It's a big gun, and the size of the grips make it for large hands only.
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  #25  
Old 1 October 2013, 11:00
johnnylaw johnnylaw is offline
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Anybody here shoot 40S&W in your 10mm? I don't own a 10, but I have read about lots of people shooting 40 out of their 10's without any modifications and having good results. I know it's not recommended from the manufacturers, but just curious since 40 is cheaper then 10mm.
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  #26  
Old 5 October 2013, 22:32
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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10mm

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Anybody here shoot 40S&W in your 10mm? I don't own a 10, but I have read about lots of people shooting 40 out of their 10's without any modifications and having good results. I know it's not recommended from the manufacturers, but just curious since 40 is cheaper then 10mm.
No, I don't.

...and there are several good reasons not to; but, since your curious, not that the manufacturer's recommendation shouldn't be good enough to quench your curiosity, I'll take a few moments to entertain your question.

1st, the .40 S&W case is about .124" shorter than the 10mm case. So, if you place a loaded .40 S&W into a 10mm barrel, it falls in. The back of the head is flush w/the back of the breach (ie the rim is not exposed). So, what prevents this from happening, when you chamber a .40 S&W in a 10mm? The extractor. This places significantly more stress on the extractor; which, will cause the extractor to break &/or wear excessively...and then brake.

2nd, automatic pistols have a "throat". Shotguns & revolvers have a "forcing cone". Arguably, they perform the same function. But, that .124" difference between case length comes up. Instead of the hot gases coming out in the throat, forward of the chamber, you now have them in the chamber itself, which will lead to chamber erosion.

3rd, The cartridge being held in the chamber by the extractor, might not be aligned correctly w/the throat. So, when the bullet moves forward it hits the forward edge of the chamber, damaging the bullet & leaving jacket or lead, in that .124" space & or in the entirety of the chamber. This will cause failures to chamber & could cause the weapon to fail (ie the infamous Ka-Boom), if it pushes the cartridge out enough, yet allows the breach to "almost" lock.

Good shooting
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  #27  
Old 6 October 2013, 08:30
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I am becoming more intrigued by this caliber and feel the need to move some 45 ACP platforms to dabble in 10mm.

I believe I will start by converting some Glock platforms from 45 ACP to 10mm (Barrels and mags, I believe)

I also think that I will buy a Kimber in 10mm.

Can you load 10mm ammo on 40S&W dies? It seems that the die(s) can be adjusted to account for the .124"
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  #28  
Old 6 October 2013, 08:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
Bought one last year and it is my new "keep in the car" gun.

Research on the 10 MM led me to be a big fan.

It's a big gun, and the size of the grips make it for large hands only.
Is it a Glock? The SF editions make the grip a touch more comfortable for those of us with little di... uh, small hands.
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  #29  
Old 6 October 2013, 10:57
johnnylaw johnnylaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockcqc View Post
No, I don't.

...and there are several good reasons not to; but, since your curious, not that the manufacturer's recommendation shouldn't be good enough to quench your curiosity, I'll take a few moments to entertain your question.

1st, the .40 S&W case is about .124" shorter than the 10mm case. So, if you place a loaded .40 S&W into a 10mm barrel, it falls in. The back of the head is flush w/the back of the breach (ie the rim is not exposed). So, what prevents this from happening, when you chamber a .40 S&W in a 10mm? The extractor. This places significantly more stress on the extractor; which, will cause the extractor to break &/or wear excessively...and then brake.

2nd, automatic pistols have a "throat". Shotguns & revolvers have a "forcing cone". Arguably, they perform the same function. But, that .124" difference between case length comes up. Instead of the hot gases coming out in the throat, forward of the chamber, you now have them in the chamber itself, which will lead to chamber erosion.

3rd, The cartridge being held in the chamber by the extractor, might not be aligned correctly w/the throat. So, when the bullet moves forward it hits the forward edge of the chamber, damaging the bullet & leaving jacket or lead, in that .124" space & or in the entirety of the chamber. This will cause failures to chamber & could cause the weapon to fail (ie the infamous Ka-Boom), if it pushes the cartridge out enough, yet allows the breach to "almost" lock.

Good shooting
Thanks for the reply. I understand what you're saying, I reload and I'm not a gun newbie. I bought my first Glock about 15 years ago, a G21. I was used to shooting a Sig P220 and didn't like the G21 so I sold it (at a handsome profit due to the hi cap mag ban). Fast forward about 12 years and I picked up a G34 and then a G35. Love the long slides and now I pretty much exclusively carry a Glock off duty. I have found them to be utterly reliable and have no question as to if they will go boom when needed.

Long story short, they are in my opinion built like a tank and can stand up to great abuse. But that doesn't mean I abuse mine. I appreciate your input and answering my question.

Now I need to pick up a 10mm and try one out.

Take care and good shooting
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  #30  
Old 6 October 2013, 11:40
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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10mm

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I believe I will start by converting some Glock platforms from 45 ACP to 10mm (Barrels and mags, I believe)
You will probably have to change out the extractor also.

Quote:
Can you load 10mm ammo on 40S&W dies? It seems that the die(s) can be adjusted to account for the .124"
"generally", the dies are manufactured & sold as .40 S&W/10mm (ie you can reload both cartridges w/1 set of dies).

Good shooting
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  #31  
Old 6 October 2013, 12:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
Is it a Glock?
Yes.

Before you go and buy a 1911 10 MM, cover some of the reading that I covered....the Glocks are the only mass-produced guns other than the Brens that are designed to carry the cartridge pressure from the ground up. The 1911 variants are all considered retrofitted.
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  #32  
Old 6 October 2013, 15:12
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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10mm

Some additional info, if you will, reference "Sectional Density" (SD) or, in blue collar terms, penetration potential. Higher is better, in terms of penetration.

10mm 180gr bullet: 0.161

.45 ACP 230gr bullet: 0.162

9mm 147gr bullet: 0.167

10mm 200gr bullet: 0.179

The similarities between .45 ACP 230gr & 10mm 180gr bullets, led to the "inception" of the .40 S&W.

There are no velocity/bullet design injections (ie HP, bonded, jacketed, cast, etc) into the SD formula.

Penetration kills.

Good shooting
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  #33  
Old 6 October 2013, 18:07
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This has me curious as the 40 S&W is a shorter 10mm, could you replace the 10mm barrel in a Glock 10mm with a 40 S&W barrel to shoot 40 S&W?
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  #34  
Old 7 October 2013, 05:06
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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10mm

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This has me curious as the 40 S&W is a shorter 10mm, could you replace the 10mm barrel in a Glock 10mm with a 40 S&W barrel to shoot 40 S&W?
Yes; though, it would have to be a "Glock 20" .40 S&W barrel, if your using the Glock 20 platform.

Good shooting
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  #35  
Old 7 October 2013, 05:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockcqc View Post
Some additional info, if you will, reference "Sectional Density" (SD) or, in blue collar terms, penetration potential...

There are no velocity/bullet design injections (ie HP, bonded, jacketed, cast, etc) into the SD formula....

Penetration kills.
Not trying to nit pick, but I think it is important to highlight as you stated that bullet design (form/shape/material) is not accounted for in the sectional density formula. To me this is hugely important as the meplat shape can have heavy consequences in terms of tissue destruction and penetration/aerodynamic efficiency. Also the material, lead, hard cast lead, jacketed, copper, soft point, ballistic tip, so on has huge ramifications on penetration properties.

Looking at SD alone tells a small part of the story. You stated SD as penetration potential which is a good term, but I though that point may get lost with the stats of specific bullets, ie, put a flat nose on your best SD performer and a pointy nose on the worst and you may get a flip flop in terms of penetration. Another term to look at is ballistic coefficient, which includes SD but still only tells part of the story and takes into account form but not construction.

Penetration to get to vital targets does kill, but the required penetration IMO should be matched to the animal (if possible). Then you can take advantage of other charecteristics that increase lateral damage and provide for larger permanent wound channels. Granted a hole in an aorta, is a hole in an aorta that will insanguinate until loss of conciousiness and susequent brain death. But lateral damage may aid where adrenaline and moving targets may work against you on either blood or CNS targets. Of course with pistol bullets, this is a difficult point as there are not yet bullets that can penetrate deeply enough and provide fragmentation and impart energy to tissue for secondary fragments and that is really what rifles are for... But I believe there is a benefit to a soft point or a flat nose bullet for tissue destruction.

All this to say the 10mm is a pretty neat balance for large critters and there are loadings out there that make 15 rounds of fun a potent choice, especially when you think semiauto recoil control, follow up shots. the .460 Rowland is intersting too, but that is as close as you get for a easy to carry sidearm with .44 mag potential. The 6" longslide version of the Glock 20SF is one that I will build eventually. But you still can't beat a rifle.

Last edited by Nimja; 7 October 2013 at 06:01.
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  #36  
Old 7 October 2013, 06:42
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The 1911 10mm's tend to eat shock buffs pretty routinely, even with a 26lb spring. The poly shock buff taking the hit has more value to me than the extra 1/16" of recoil path. 180gn Gold Dots at 1200fps with Blue Dot powder works fine and doesn't seem to stress anything too significantly. Not surprisingly, if you don't have issues shooting 45ACP 185+P, then 10mm shouldn't be significantly different.

I used to have a G29 as my car gun, but I sold it to my brother because he just had to have it. It hasn't been missed enough to justify buying another one, just not a Tupperware guy. S/F....Ken M
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  #37  
Old 7 October 2013, 10:35
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Does that include 1911s that are specifically, or purpose built, for 10mm? I'm thinking along the lines of the Colt Delta Elite.
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  #38  
Old 7 October 2013, 18:10
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  #39  
Old 9 October 2013, 14:37
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Glock 20SF with KKM Barrel
I have shot Double Tap 135gr JHP box advertised velocity of 1650 FPS (has to be slower) but very little recoil.i have also shot their 220gr Hard Cast FP
which also has little felt recoil. I used to say the Glock 30SF was the best shooting Glock until I shot the 20.
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  #40  
Old 9 October 2013, 16:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFO View Post
Does that include 1911s that are specifically, or purpose built, for 10mm? I'm thinking along the lines of the Colt Delta Elite.
The DE is a dual spring, which is , sorta/kinda, the same as running a 26lb spring. The heavy loads do tend to beat them up, there was some peening on mine where you started to get metal/metal impact. But mine is one of the 1st out in the late 80's and you could get Norma 200gn cheap, so it's got some mileage. S/F.....Ken M
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