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  #21  
Old 17 December 2014, 11:52
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Colt 1911 in Super 38.
This is one of the few pistols I can consistently hit with. Just feels natural
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  #22  
Old 17 December 2014, 12:08
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I was looking at getting the DW Guardian in .38 Super.....but thanks to Dark Helmet, been shopping Les Baer's this morning. And "Santa's" response was "Oh, you mean you're going to shop for, pick out, and buy your present? And I'm not involved, and don't have to be dragged to every gun store in Dallas/Ft Worth? Knock yourself out. You DO know this counts as Christmas AND B-Day, right?" She's a peach.
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  #23  
Old 17 December 2014, 12:39
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Came across this review, comparing several 1911s (DW, Les Baer, SA) of similar cost/options. Some of the info I was looking for at least. Continually being impressed by all I am reading and feedback I am getting on the Dan Wesson Specialist and Valors. Think one of those is going to be finding a new home real soon. Was considering a Springfield Armory TRP at first, but then the Dan Wessons have sparked my interest.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=321236

Had a Kimber 12 years ago, shot well, should have not sold it. Had a Ed Brown, but within a few hundred rounds, the thumb safety cracked. And the extractor/ejector had issues, as was getting pinged in the forehead with the brass. Brown fixed it, but kind of soured it for me, so sold. Had a Wilson Combat, very nice in many aspects in terms of finish and fit. But, had a bunch of FTFs, so again kind of ruined it for me - being as expensive of a gun as it was, so sold it also (good thing on the Brown and the Wilson, got all my money back when sold). Have a couple of friends that are really into Les Baers. Pretty tight though initially. May consider a Les Baer in the future as well.
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Last edited by leopardprey; 17 December 2014 at 12:44.
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  #24  
Old 17 December 2014, 12:44
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If I were in the market for a 1911, I'd either steal one of TFG's older Kimbers or buy a new (or used) SA Loaded....
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  #25  
Old 17 December 2014, 13:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck1031 View Post
Any quality 1911 ($1500+ range) should get you to 1.5 inch groups at 50 yds. All mine can achieve that, we shoot 4 inch clay pigeons at 50 yards off hand with my pistols. Most accurate? S&W M&P CORE .40 with Trijicon RMR 6.5, nails them every single time, feels like your cheating.

Please don't get me wrong, Les Baer does make a fine pistol, but, when I read this:

Les Baer Custom, Inc. has elected not to provide any written warranty, either “limited” or “full”



I decided to go with other makers. It kind of makes me question the "guaranteed 1.5 inches at 50 yds" claim when they can't offer me a written warranty. Makes the "guarantee" kind of worthless. Also, how can they guarantee the accuracy of their product if they do not know my shooting techniques? So, if I buy their pistol, with their guarantee, and no warranty, when I cannot achieve the 1.5 inches at 50 yards, due to my lack of shooting ability, they can tell me to pound sand.

As for the customization of the 1911 platform, my wife says my 1911's are my "paper dolls", with as many grips, triggers, main spring housing, safeties, etc. that have been at one time or another changed out.

Also, forgot to add the Springfield EMP in 9mm, probably one of the best 1911's I have owned in both carry, accuracy, reliability, and fit/finish. That one was "borrowed" by the lady of the house and not been returned, and she is not a 1911 "fan".
You're confusing the ability of the weapon and your abilities. Hitting a 4" circle at 50 yards is more than twice less accurate than 1.5" at the same distance. I've never seen an M&P CORE on the line at Camp Perry but there are hundreds of Les Baers (more than any other brand).
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  #26  
Old 17 December 2014, 13:07
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
If I were in the market for a 1911, I'd either steal one of TFG's older Kimbers or buy a new (or used) SA Loaded....
Exactly.

My first 1911 was a Kimber Custom II, made when they were in Oregon. I've had a couple Kimbers since then that I have either sold or returned for QC issues. One of which went to the guys at Wilson Combat for anodizing and Armor Coating.

I now have a Spingfieled TRP that I love. It is a good CCW wep, but the weight can be a bit much for extended periods of time, unlike a Glock
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  #27  
Old 17 December 2014, 13:09
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Originally Posted by RangerCharlie View Post
Colt 1911 in Super 38.
This is one of the few pistols I can consistently hit with. Just feels natural
Been wanting a .38 super for a long time, have heard nothing but good things regarding that caliber.
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  #28  
Old 17 December 2014, 14:03
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I've got a Colt series 70 and an early 1997 Kimber. Both excellent handguns. Due to the weight and capacity factors, I typically carry my G23 and leave the 1911's in the safe.

After carrying 1911's for many years I'd really like a lightweight commander.
The Colt "Wiley Clapp" lightweight commander I've seen on gunbroker is very appealing. It's easy to carry and has most of what I need built in without the custom gun cost and aggravation.
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  #29  
Old 17 December 2014, 14:19
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Originally Posted by 275RLTW View Post
You're confusing the ability of the weapon and your abilities. Hitting a 4" circle at 50 yards is more than twice less accurate than 1.5" at the same distance. I've never seen an M&P CORE on the line at Camp Perry but there are hundreds of Les Baers (more than any other brand).
From Baer:
All Les Baer pistols come with a guarantee of at least 3" accuracy at 50 yards, and many models are available at extra cost ($295.00) with a guarantee of 1.5" at the same distance.[

And I am happy for shooters at Camp Perry. My point was that there are other firearms out there, even "Tupperware" that can claim the same accuracy that is guaranteed by Baer.

Also, I have asked specifically about the 1.5 inch accuracy today, and the response I got from a Baer rep was "Yes, if you buy one of the guaranteed pistols, it should be able to shoot as advertised, if not, you can send it in, and we will make sure it can shoot as advertised when we send it back". I asked if these results were from bench rest or off hand, and was informed these were mechanical bench rest results.

Not trying to ruffle feathers about Baer, hell, I'm shopping for one now, my point was to illustrate that their "offering" of a 1.5 inch gun at 50 yards for an upsell in price should not be a deciding factor as other platforms can, and DO, offer the same performance.
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  #30  
Old 17 December 2014, 14:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck1031 View Post
From Baer:
All Les Baer pistols come with a guarantee of at least 3" accuracy at 50 yards, and many models are available at extra cost ($295.00) with a guarantee of 1.5" at the same distance.[

And I am happy for shooters at Camp Perry. My point was that there are other firearms out there, even "Tupperware" that can claim the same accuracy that is guaranteed by Baer.

Also, I have asked specifically about the 1.5 inch accuracy today, and the response I got from a Baer rep was "Yes, if you buy one of the guaranteed pistols, it should be able to shoot as advertised, if not, you can send it in, and we will make sure it can shoot as advertised when we send it back". I asked if these results were from bench rest or off hand, and was informed these were mechanical bench rest results.

Not trying to ruffle feathers about Baer, hell, I'm shopping for one now, my point was to illustrate that their "offering" of a 1.5 inch gun at 50 yards for an upsell in price should not be a deciding factor as other platforms can, and DO, offer the same performance.
I'm not trying to derail here but name ANY other company that guarantees that (provide a link to prove it). I have never found another. Even Wilson stops at 2" @ 25 yds. While I may not be able to shoot as well as my Les Baers, I know that any issues with accuracy is not me outperforming my equipment. Again, you seem to equate a machine's capability to your physical ability (or inability). If you are happy with hitting clays with your CORE all day long then you wouldn't be asking about 1911s, nor telling people who know more than you about the particular subject that they are wrong.
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Old 17 December 2014, 14:44
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Actually Wilson and Nighthawk claims 1" at 25 yards, but whatever. In my original post I state:

Any quality 1911 ($1500+ range) should get you to 1.5 inch groups at 50 yds. All mine can achieve that, we shoot 4 inch clay pigeons at 50 yards off hand with my pistols.

I was merely throwing the CORE in the mix to show that accuracy can be achieved with other platforms and should not be the ONLY determining factor when looking at manufacturers. Hell, if I want to spend $4K plus on a 100 yard 1911, I'll order an Accuracy X. It's about the individual and what they are looking for in a pistol. This is one reason I hate manufacturer fanboys, they get stuck in the mindset that their decision is better than anyone else's, and woe be to them that speaketh up against their almighty choices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 275RLTW View Post
you wouldn't be asking about 1911s, nor telling people who know more than you about the particular subject that they are wrong.
You are right. You know me, my obvious inexperience and the fact I have no knowledge of the 1911, and you obviously know more than I do. I apologize.

You win, Les Baer is the best 1911 on the market, hands down, most accurate, Baby Jesus said so.

Argument Won, I hope you feel better, and sleep better knowing you bested me on the internet. Congratulations.

In the mean time, leopardprey, if you have been looking at the Dan Wesson's, they are a fine platform to look at, as I have stated here, and in PM's, they would be a fine choice, and you should purchase with confidence.
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Last edited by dbuck1031; 17 December 2014 at 15:07.
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  #32  
Old 17 December 2014, 15:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck1031 View Post
From Baer:
All Les Baer pistols come with a guarantee of at least 3" accuracy at 50 yards, and many models are available at extra cost ($295.00) with a guarantee of 1.5" at the same distance.[

And I am happy for shooters at Camp Perry. My point was that there are other firearms out there, even "Tupperware" that can claim the same accuracy that is guaranteed by Baer.

Also, I have asked specifically about the 1.5 inch accuracy today, and the response I got from a Baer rep was "Yes, if you buy one of the guaranteed pistols, it should be able to shoot as advertised, if not, you can send it in, and we will make sure it can shoot as advertised when we send it back". I asked if these results were from bench rest or off hand, and was informed these were mechanical bench rest results.

Not trying to ruffle feathers about Baer, hell, I'm shopping for one now, my point was to illustrate that their "offering" of a 1.5 inch gun at 50 yards for an upsell in price should not be a deciding factor as other platforms can, and DO, offer the same performance.
They are saying if you put the gun in some sort of vice, or stand, it will make those groups. Guaranteeing it will do that in your hands would be ridiculous, they would have all sorts of brand new shooters with too much money buying their guns and wondering why they fired their first 20 rounds in their entire life and completely missed the silhouette. Their guarantee is only to say that if you are experiencing accuracy issues, it's your fault not theirs.

Edit:didn't see the last part about being off a bench when I read this originally. So disregard.
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  #33  
Old 17 December 2014, 15:04
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You do know that Dan Wesson is now made by CZ right? They've had some QC issues as well. Particularly with coatings. I will state that like their CCO model.
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  #34  
Old 17 December 2014, 15:19
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You do know that Dan Wesson is now made by CZ right? They've had some QC issues as well. Particularly with coatings. I will state that like their CCO model.
Yes, they did have issues when they first introduced the Duty Finish, which is a form of ferritic nitrocarburizing. Since then, they have worked the "kinks" out so to speak. Also, after the fire in Nov. 2012, they re-tooled and their QC is much better now. You can determine a "pre-fire" gun, and "post-fire" gun by the serial number. Pre-fire's have a slant (or are in an italic font if you will), post-fire's have no slant to the serial. Also of note, an upside down Y, or lambda denotes a "blemish" model, that CZ will not cover under warranty, so keep that in mind as well when shopping.

But, I am ignorant in the realm of 1911's, so my information should be considered suspect, as it has been pointed out.
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Last edited by dbuck1031; 17 December 2014 at 15:29.
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  #35  
Old 17 December 2014, 15:28
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Well, that is actually one of the things I like about Dan Wesson, is their connection to CZ. I know since 2010 Dan Wesson re-did all their internals - now no MIM parts. From what I have heard, their Black Coating they use on their forged SS frames and Slides is some of the toughest in the industry. I have been impressed when checking them out at the gun stores, better than some of the higher priced 1911s have seen. Have a couple of CZ shotguns (two 20 gauges) as well, and brother has a couple of their rifles- very nice shooters. I think CZ is one of the best buys for the dollar.
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  #36  
Old 17 December 2014, 15:29
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Originally Posted by dbuck1031 View Post
Yes, they did have issues when they first introduced the Duty Finish, which is a form of ferritic nitrocarburizing. Since then, they have worked the "kinks" out so to speak. Also, after the fire in Nov. 2012, they re-tooled and their QC is much better now. You can determine a "pre-fire" gun, and "post-fire" gun by the serial number. Pre-fire's have no slant, post-fire's have a slant to the serial (or are in an italic font if you will). Also of note, an upside down Y, or lambda denotes a "blemish" model, that CZ will not cover under warranty, so keep that in mind as well when shopping.

But, I am ignorant in the realm of 1911's, so my information should be considered suspect, as it has been pointed out.

Are not these Blemish models still sold out rather quickly though due to the drastically reduced price?
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  #37  
Old 17 December 2014, 15:32
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Originally Posted by RangerCharlie View Post
Colt 1911 in Super 38.
This is one of the few pistols I can consistently hit with. Just feels natural
What would you consider the .38 super, in terms of felt recoil to be comparable to? Similar to a 9mm shot out of a 1911, or more like that of a .45? Bit more "snappy"?

A Colt 1911 in .38 super, now that is just pure classic. Good deal.
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  #38  
Old 17 December 2014, 15:48
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The DW "Blemish" models can be found, but they are becoming hard to find due to QC getting much better. And yes, they are usually snatched up pretty fast.

My opinion of felt recoil of .38 Super from a 1911 is on par with +P ammo shot from any other platform. "Snappy" 9 is what my grandfather used to call it. He had a Colt in .38 Super that my Uncle inherited, I chose the Colt 1861 Navy (with provenance from a Texas Ranger purchase order from Colt) from his collection, first pistol I ever shot.
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  #39  
Old 17 December 2014, 15:54
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.38 Super is one of those gotta have guns if you really like history and personality with your gun. .38 Supers have an interesting spot in history, regardless of the thoughts of the round today (a round I still would rather not be shot with)....
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  #40  
Old 17 December 2014, 16:01
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.38 Super is one of those gotta have guns if you really like history and personality with your gun. .38 Supers have an interesting spot in history, regardless of the thoughts of the round today (a round I still would rather not be shot with)....
Amen. I have been in the market for one, but every time I start shopping, something else falls in my lap usually at a "If I pass this up I'm an idiot" price. Last one was a Coonan Cadet I was able to walk away smiling like I stole the entire cookie jar (7 bills), I already had the Classic, so this was a great addition.

Until today, I had really been contemplating the DW Guardian in .38 Super, but I have now found myself on a Les Baer hunt.
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