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  #21  
Old 12 March 2015, 04:45
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Win 748;.Ramshot TAC are great powders for bulk loads in 223. They flow like water. S/F....Ken M
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  #22  
Old 12 March 2015, 20:48
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Got it, thanks! S/F.
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  #23  
Old 13 March 2015, 05:06
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After shooting factory loads out to 300 yds with my BCM complete upper 18" 1:8 twist all 77 grn were 5.56 MM AND groups were about 4" with the Nikon 4-12 @ 12. 69 SMK were all .223 and smaller groups top to bottom.

Will start working up a load with .223 brass, RL-15, Federal 205M primers and 77 grn Nosler custom competition, hornady 75 BTHP ATP. And 69 grn SMK with same powder and primer.

69 grn SMK grouped smaller at 300 than 77 at 300.

Your thoughts? E5M?
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  #24  
Old 13 March 2015, 10:05
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Most people find a combination between powder, barrel configuration, bullet type and weight and powder charge and some even consider brass headstamp. Do your homework find a load you like and then start to experiment. Even bullet OAL may help with accuracy. Sadly, the barrel on most AR's is what limits your accuracy.
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  #25  
Old 13 March 2015, 10:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatmedic View Post
After shooting factory loads out to 300 yds with my BCM complete upper 18" 1:8 twist all 77 grn were 5.56 MM AND groups were about 4" with the Nikon 4-12 @ 12. 69 SMK were all .223 and smaller groups top to bottom.

Will start working up a load with .223 brass, RL-15, Federal 205M primers and 77 grn Nosler custom competition, hornady 75 BTHP ATP. And 69 grn SMK with same powder and primer.

69 grn SMK grouped smaller at 300 than 77 at 300.

Your thoughts? E5M?
If you like the heavier bullets, consider getting a 6.8. SPC
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  #26  
Old 13 March 2015, 10:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatmedic View Post
After shooting factory loads out to 300 yds with my BCM complete upper 18" 1:8 twist all 77 grn were 5.56 MM AND groups were about 4" with the Nikon 4-12 @ 12. 69 SMK were all .223 and smaller groups top to bottom.

Will start working up a load with .223 brass, RL-15, Federal 205M primers and 77 grn Nosler custom competition, hornady 75 BTHP ATP. And 69 grn SMK with same powder and primer.

69 grn SMK grouped smaller at 300 than 77 at 300.

Your thoughts? E5M?
I had an awesome 69SMK load with 748 that would do 3060fp from my service gun and shoot bug hole groups. No, I'm not going to tell you what it was, you'll see 3060 is significantly more than you're supposed to get. The thing is, my 75gn would drift less in the wind, and that was what I needed to save points in the rapid strings at places like Perry where the wind kicks your ass.

You have to consider the purpose. As I mentioned in the 243 thread, lighter/shorter bullets tend to be more accurate in an ultimate sense since they have greater stability. But if the problem is wind drift, as it is for NRA course work, you need heavy bullets to fight the wind, and you just have to do the best you can.

I will tell you that the 75/77/80 gn bullets need to be pushed hard from the 1:8 and 1;9 twist guns with the shorter barrels, they need the rpms for the stability. What's "supposed" to be a 1:8 twist isn't always so. You may want to take a tight patch and a cleaning rod and measure it yourself so you know for sure exactly where you stand. S/F.....Ken M
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  #27  
Old 14 March 2015, 15:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
...Do your homework find a load you like and then start to experiment...
What makes me like the load? Component cost? Component availability?
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  #28  
Old 14 March 2015, 16:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimja View Post
What makes me like the load? Component cost? Component availability?
These days, probably bullet weight and configuration and whatever powder you have available.
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  #29  
Old 18 March 2015, 20:44
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Rgr. I'm thinking 55gn. Powder around here seems difficult to buy in bulk.
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  #30  
Old 18 March 2015, 21:41
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I have been using AA 2015 (A benchrest powder) and AA 2200 for reloading 5.56 and 6.8.

I have also used WW 296 (Although I think it has changed) Hodgens has a new rifle powder, CFE 223.
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  #31  
Old 23 March 2015, 19:36
Scarface Scarface is offline
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I reload.
I also have a Bushmaster which I don't care for, my rifle in boot camp and issued in RVN was the M14 (not being infantry, later replaced with M16).
In fact at Camp Geiger for BIT we were issued M1 Garands, I guess I'm old.
I just can not get that Bushmaster to group.
Whether commercial green tips or 55 gr. FMJ's or "blasting" 62 gr. Barnaul or 55 gr. Wolf, nope! Minute of pie plate.
Same with my reloads - 70 gr. Speer IMR 4895 24.4, 55 gr. Nosler IMR 3031 24.5 55 gr. Remington PSP 24.5 IMR 3031 - now my Remington 788 .22-250, THAT'S a death ray.
Also notice that the 5.56 tends to "string" up towards the left as it heats up.
I personally don't care much for the rifle, if I had my druthers would rather have a Mini-14 I believe.
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  #32  
Old 23 March 2015, 20:23
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I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, an expert like these guys, but I have read many bad reviews on the mini 14 in the accuracy department. I'd take care as it may turn out like your bushmaster and you hate it.

On another note, if you could find yourself an "original" AR-180, you may be very pleased. It was made by Armalite and uses gas piston instead of impingement, thus doing awaying with a buffer and allowing a side folding stock. By "original" I mean one made in Costa Mesa, California by Armalite; Howa in Japan; or Sterling in England. In that order, as quality is in that order. I have a Costa and love it better than any '16 type. They can be found on the online sites every now and again.
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  #33  
Old 23 March 2015, 20:59
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Scarface, I'd recommend a different AR. The guns now are a completely different animal. With the right set up, sub MOA is easily possible.
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  #34  
Old 23 March 2015, 21:30
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Most Mini 14's and hell even the Socom 16's group around 5" at 100 yds. That action needs a real barrel to be accurate.
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  #35  
Old 24 March 2015, 10:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
Most Mini 14's and hell even the Socom 16's group around 5" at 100 yds. That action needs a real barrel to be accurate.
I have noticed newer mini-14s with a heavier barrel any improvement to accuracy?
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  #36  
Old 24 March 2015, 11:14
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For me accuracy is relative thing. Depends on the shooting, the target and the person.

5" at 100 yards is 2.3" at 50 yards (150 feet). I read somewhere once most game is shot under 75 yards. Kill zone on a deer is how big?

For those into competitive long range shooting, accuracy is probably everything.


A good old book by Ken Waters, Water's Pet loads. He has some good starting loads, I don't think it has been updated. Load development for a specific firearm can be very tedious at best. Another good old book, The Accurate Rifle.

I did bench rest long ago, the loading times was very long, case prep, bullet prep was bad enough, then finding the best bullet and load for the rifle. For those people who enjoy challenges, that might be the sport for you.
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  #37  
Old 24 March 2015, 11:21
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Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
Most Mini 14's and hell even the Socom 16's group around 5" at 100 yds. That action needs a real barrel to be accurate.
This is no joke.
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  #38  
Old 24 March 2015, 11:22
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I have noticed newer mini-14s with a heavier barrel any improvement to accuracy?
No.
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  #39  
Old 24 March 2015, 16:34
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Speaking of good books ...

If you really want to squeak out the most from your loaded ammunition, then get the book "The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy" by Glenn Newick. He was (is?) a respected benchrester in the 80's who wrote what many of us benchresters coming up in the 90's felt was The Bible for accurate reloading.

All of the principles of reloading that he outlines are just as applicable today as they were 23 years ago, when I first bought his book. I still refer to it from time to time and consider it one of my most useful firearms-related book purchases.

Benchrest-level reloading is not for the feint-of-heart and can be considered very tedious. The level of detail he describes is unnecessary for most reloaders, but if you follow his book, you will find out what your rifle is capable of shooting.

Regards,
Danny
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  #40  
Old 24 March 2015, 19:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOLLiS View Post
For me accuracy is relative thing. Depends on the shooting, the target and the person.

5" at 100 yards is 2.3" at 50 yards (150 feet). I read somewhere once most game is shot under 75 yards. Kill zone on a deer is how big?

For those into competitive long range shooting, accuracy is probably everything.


A good old book by Ken Waters, Water's Pet loads. He has some good starting loads, I don't think it has been updated. Load development for a specific firearm can be very tedious at best. Another good old book, The Accurate Rifle.

I did bench rest long ago, the loading times was very long, case prep, bullet prep was bad enough, then finding the best bullet and load for the rifle. For those people who enjoy challenges, that might be the sport for you.
So imagine an offhand shot, unsupported that throws your shot just to the left or right of the kill zone. And then add 2.5" more to the error. Now you are tracking a wounded animal for perhaps miles instead of meters. Or, it could throw the shot 2.5" back into the kill zone. The point is you will never know.
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