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  #41  
Old 7 October 2017, 23:02
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Saw on the news tonight video of the funeral for the LVMPD officer killed. One of the pallbearers was wearing a Tabasco Tshirt.
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  #42  
Old 7 October 2017, 23:33
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My father dressed me like a little mafioso when I was young. What he taught me was to dress sharp when the situation calls for it. Not everyone was taught this way, but don’t tell me idiots don’t understand how to dress properly for court. I get a suit isn’t affordable but having respect costs nothing.
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  #43  
Old 7 October 2017, 23:46
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  #44  
Old 8 October 2017, 01:44
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While I'd probably go buy a suit for criminal court, such an occasion has yet to arise in my life.

I'm pretty much a jeans and T-shirt guy. Ball cap. Boots. Not just for work. I wear the same clothing to church, a night on the town, playing gigs in whatever band I'm in at the time, etc. They may be a little frayed or have small holes, but they're always clean. A real dress-up occasion for me is a Wrangler shirt, hubcap belt-buckle, and a western hat.

It's not that I'm irreverent or disrespectful. It's not that I don't get the importance or gravitas of the situation-- It's just that I don't see clothing as part of that gravitas. I don't believe "clothes make the man." For me, clothes are something to protect me from the elements/work and cover my dick so I don't get arrested. That's it.

For the record, I think the hair-gel-and-button-up-shirt-with-khaki-calf-length-shorts-and-low-tops-and-no-socks-off-duty-junior-law-partner-uniform warrants a "why are you dressed like that? Are you gay?"

So. There's that.
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  #45  
Old 8 October 2017, 03:14
Akheloce Akheloce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatkindasux View Post
i was a juror for a fairly large Federal trial in an election fraud scheme recently. Full suit and tie dress code was strictly enforced for the duration by all who were in the court room.
For the Jurors?

Damn, the only suits with ties I own are 1 ea green polyester, and 1 ea blue polyester, and they both have lots of accoutrements and stuff on them. (and neither fit anymore)

I become a defendant, sure, I'll spring for a suit.

As a juror? FU.
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  #46  
Old 8 October 2017, 04:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-rgr View Post
While I'd probably go buy a suit for criminal court, such an occasion has yet to arise in my life.

I'm pretty much a jeans and T-shirt guy. Ball cap. Boots. Not just for work. I wear the same clothing to church, a night on the town, playing gigs in whatever band I'm in at the time, etc. They may be a little frayed or have small holes, but they're always clean. A real dress-up occasion for me is a Wrangler shirt, hubcap belt-buckle, and a western hat.

It's not that I'm irreverent or disrespectful. It's not that I don't get the importance or gravitas of the situation-- It's just that I don't see clothing as part of that gravitas. I don't believe "clothes make the man." For me, clothes are something to protect me from the elements/work and cover my dick so I don't get arrested. That's it.

For the record, I think the hair-gel-and-button-up-shirt-with-khaki-calf-length-shorts-and-low-tops-and-no-socks-off-duty-junior-law-partner-uniform warrants a "why are you dressed like that? Are you gay?"

So. There's that.
I kinda agree here but based on your location and my own, it's worth noting the geographical difference in culture. In our respective locales, I'd say most people are the jeans/hiking boots/active top combo. Which has more to do with what day to day life is likely to include or require. Especially in the winter months.

In the course of a weekday here in the winter, almost everyone will likely have to clear the driveway of that heinous snow shit and the death ice on the front steps. We'll make two trips to the wood pile, three if we have kids or olds, to keep the house heated. Oh and of course, every parking lot and curbside will have a few million wet salt crystals mixed with that fine-sand-turned-salty-mud sludge. Which will destroy the finest leather with a quickness I've found. That's baseline shit we do in ungodly cold weather. Never mind the variables like black ice sending your car into a snow bank, walk dogs and do house maintenance in suburban Siberia weather. Etc. A nice tailored suit and some quality shoes will be useful for none of that.

That being said and in agreement, I saw the exact same thing last week while assisting someone with my sworn testimony. Waiting for a case worker, I saw baggy paint stained cargo pants with puffy skateboard shoes. Cocktail dresses on some newly-single moms. There was also a woman in "Juicy" sweatpants and a haggard oil stained Duck Dynasty sweatshirt. On its own that's unwise; in courtroom that's a shit appearance to portray and indicative of a lazy entitled swamp beast.

Know your environment, the expectations, and have two neutral colored and tailored suits. suits. Be able to wear them
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  #47  
Old 8 October 2017, 05:28
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I've only been to court a couple of times, but the first time I went, I had to go because I had totaled my car on Christmas night 1975 returning home from my girlfriend's house (the current and ONLY HH6). Since I was 17 a the time, my mom had to go with me, and since I had to return to school that day, I wore what I was required to wear that day to school- my Naval JROTC uniform with ribbons, high and tight haircut, spit shined low quarters.
I was the third or fourth case, after several dressed as y'all have described but with a '70's look- long, unkempt hair on guys, jeans, T-shirt/ flannel shirt over T-shirt. As I stood up when the judge called my name, he did a double take and asked if I was in high school, to which I replied, "Yes, Your Honor." He said, "Ok, I'm setting aside the $150 fine (2 weeks pay for me back then) and sending you to traffic school (8 hours)." He asked me why I was wearing the uniform and I told him- he smiled and then added, "No court fees".

Dressing for success definitely helped me that day.
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  #48  
Old 8 October 2017, 05:41
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I'm actually amazed at how many people forget that how you dress is not only a part of being a well-mannered and humble person, but also it greatly helps with your interactions with other people. It can open, as well as close, many doors.

I'm a firm believer in that when you're faced with authority of any kind you should dress in a way that says: "I respect your authority and your job and I'm also a clean and well-mannered person". You are simply being viewed thru a totally different lens then. The optics change.

It doesn't have to be an expensive wear. Just clean, classy and modest one. Fitting for the occasion.
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  #49  
Old 8 October 2017, 07:30
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Meh, I want fucking idiots to wear peacock colors so I can ID them from as far away as possible.

A judicial system that fails to punish open disrespect is contemptible. A system that fails to reward good behavior and "discourage" poor behavior is weak.

BTW, when did fair and impartial come to mean ignore the evidence of your own damn eyes? Just because the lazy liberal symp prosecutor is a failure doesn't mean the jury should neglect their duty to represent the people (and punish the wicked). That's how you get liberal shitholes like Chicago. S/F....Ken M
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  #50  
Old 8 October 2017, 08:49
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It's not leave it to beaver anymore folks.
Most folks don't GAF what others think of them anymore. Nothing will change that attitude IMO.

Respect for the courts? I lost faith in the justice system years ago.
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  #51  
Old 8 October 2017, 10:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
I remember teaching my son how to tie both a regualr tie and a bow tie. I also remember going with him to buy him his first grown man suit.

While I appreciate the casualness of modern society, I think that a man should be taught to wear clothes appropriate to the situation.

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Nothing to flame. Strong words, strong parenting. The lack thereof makes our headlines daily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC View Post
It's not leave it to beaver anymore folks.
Most folks don't GAF what others think of them anymore.
Haha. Yeah, prob true.

I dress how I dress because of me.

I always taught my kids there is a 'uniform' for everything. One of the few things I said that has seemed to have stuck.
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  #52  
Old 8 October 2017, 10:08
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For the WIN!

guy shows up for sentencing in front of the female judge in a domestic violence case. Wears a wife-beater T-shirt. WAIT. there is more

His shirt is sporting the words "On Your Knees BITCH"!

He was shocked when the judge maxed him out.
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  #53  
Old 8 October 2017, 10:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC View Post
It's not leave it to beaver anymore folks.
Most folks don't GAF what others think of them anymore. Nothing will change that attitude IMO.

Respect for the courts? I lost faith in the justice system years ago.
I don't see as being as much about what others think of me as it is about effectively camouflaging myself. The more effectively I mimic the prevailing dress code the better I'm able to move about unimpeded.

So to speak.
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  #54  
Old 8 October 2017, 10:21
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What it took me many years to figure out is that putting on a suit has nothing to do with you. It is a sign of respect for whomever you are meeting with. If you show up to a job interview with me wearing jeans and a Tshirt you are done as soon as you walk in the door because you didn't respect me or the job enough to even make an effort.
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Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate
I am the captain of my soul.
-Invictus
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  #55  
Old 8 October 2017, 10:49
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^^^^ this ^^^^

I dont expect everyone that walks through the door for an interview to own a tailored $2500 brooks brothers suit.. a $149 off the rack special from Mens Warehouse will do for most applicants..

but I will freely admit the first thing I do when someone walks through the door for an interview is to size them up based on their appearance..

shave this morning? recent hair cut? shoes polished? wearing appropriate clothing? shoulders straight? walking with confidence? etc..etc..

If you dont respect me or the job enough to do the best you possibly can and at least try to appear like you want the position.. when you are going into a situation where its common for people to be on their absolute best behavior (sorta like court...)... why would I expect anything better from you the day after I give you the job?
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  #56  
Old 8 October 2017, 11:04
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As a society, we put zero effort into anything anymore. It's an "anything goes" world and traditions/customs/societal rules are seen as a bad thing because they imply that you are member of and accountable to society itself.

Why would anyone expect another person to put effort into their physical appearance when, as TFG mentioned, the attitude is "YOU accept ME?"

There are some old customs that are worth respecting and knowing how to dress yourself is one of them, in my opinion.
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  #57  
Old 8 October 2017, 13:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
What it took me many years to figure out is that putting on a suit has nothing to do with you. It is a sign of respect for whomever you are meeting with. If you show up to a job interview with me wearing jeans and a Tshirt you are done as soon as you walk in the door because you didn't respect me or the job enough to even make an effort.
And that's exactly how most Judges will see it, and they can say that it will not effect their opinion, but it will have some effect.

None of the rest of this post is directed at Sharky...

My prior job made me have quite an extensive wardrobe when it came to courtroom attire. All business suits. Jurors, Judges, and lawyers expect a law enforcement officer to present a professionalism and respect for them while in their courtroom. I remember one Judge, a retired FBI agent, find a defense atty in contempt for not wearing socks with his shoes in the courtroom. The bailiff removed him to the jail until socks could be secured.

The courtroom is the Judges domain. They are the "supreme being" when it comes to there. It amazes me the people who fail to understand this simple concept.

You may be Joe Shit the rag man in your real life, but when you go to court, dress accordingly. It is a sign of respect. It shows people that you respect them, and you have some self respect too. Also, take a fucking bath beforehand. I've smelled some pretty offensive people in a courtroom...

Oh, and if you have no respect for yourself or anyone else, feel free to take a knee when the Judge enters the courtroom, and let us know how that works out for you when you get out of jail.


Courtroom checklist:
1. Suit and tie, semi modern, not 40s style barbershop quartet style.
2. Shower or bath, using soap and shampoo, not real poo.
3. Brush teeth or tooth, and use mouthwash. Chew some powerful breath mints so as to not offend others.
4. Use deodorant. People sweat like a whore in church in a courtroom, so be prepared.
5. Shave and a haircut.
6. Come prepared with any "evidence" you wish to present.
7. When you speak to others in the courtroom, use the terms "Yes Sir, No sir, Yes Miss, no miss, yes your honor, no your honor". Never, ever curse or yell unless you are recounting something someone said to you, and ask if it is okay to do so before you do it.
8. You cannot read sarcasm, but you can sure as shit hear and see it. Never be sarcastic or condecending in a courtroom. The only person you'll impress is yourself. Everyone else will think you are a cock. TV courtrooms are nothing like real ones. Being a dick will not go well for you. It's the lawyers job anyway.

Personal appearance, politeness, grooming, and so on, go a long way in influencing everyone's opinion of you. What would you think if you went in to see the Judge for something and he looked like a big pile of shit, and smelled the same?

My .02c
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  #58  
Old 8 October 2017, 13:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGR.Montcalm View Post
I've only been to court a couple of times, but the first time I went, I had to go because I had totaled my car on Christmas night 1975 returning home from my girlfriend's house (the current and ONLY HH6). Since I was 17 a the time, my mom had to go with me, and since I had to return to school that day, I wore what I was required to wear that day to school- my Naval JROTC uniform with ribbons, high and tight haircut, spit shined low quarters.
I was the third or fourth case, after several dressed as y'all have described but with a '70's look- long, unkempt hair on guys, jeans, T-shirt/ flannel shirt over T-shirt. As I stood up when the judge called my name, he did a double take and asked if I was in high school, to which I replied, "Yes, Your Honor." He said, "Ok, I'm setting aside the $150 fine (2 weeks pay for me back then) and sending you to traffic school (8 hours)." He asked me why I was wearing the uniform and I told him- he smiled and then added, "No court fees".

Dressing for success definitely helped me that day.
I had to fly up to Santa Cruz to be a witness in a trial once. I was a broke ass E4 at the time, no way was I buying a suit for this, so what the heck, I wore my Crackerjacks.

I got dog piled with compliments, the Judge, both attorneys, just about everyone. So many they actually entered it into the record that I was wearing my uniform so as to explain all the comments!

I think it mainly was because, well, it's Santa Cruz, they were just used to being inundated with damn dirty hippies. A dude in uniform was a nice surprise for them.
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  #59  
Old 8 October 2017, 13:28
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Military uniforms are always recognized as being formal attire in civilian courts — even the most pathetically liberal of courts! There are still many people who respect military personnel when they see them in uniform.
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  #60  
Old 8 October 2017, 13:36
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I miss the time, like when my dad was in the USMC, when all military personnel when they went out on the town they wore their uniforms. Now I see young soldiers and marines dressing up like hipsters or hip hopping thug gang bangers at the airports and off duty.
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