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  #61  
Old 8 October 2017, 14:34
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Soutpiel Soutpiel is offline
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I don't own a suit. A while back I borrowed a suit to attend the funeral of the founder of my unit. I had to wear a suit in order to wear my beret hence my moving heaven and earth to find a suit for an important occassion. Other than that the last time I wore something resembling a suit was my "step outs" worn when going home on pass while at Infantry School back in 1980. My version of dressing up is having a collar and buttons on my shirt and decent shoes.
I'm also put off if a prospective employee pitches up in a suit. I want to see and read the real person that I'm going to be working with, not the facade version. Even LinkedIn profile pics turn me off if the dude is posing in formal sunday-best portrait mode.(no offence fellow linkedin socnet group members with lovely profile pics )
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Last edited by Soutpiel; 8 October 2017 at 14:51. Reason: OCD spelling repairs
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  #62  
Old 8 October 2017, 14:45
edd1e22 edd1e22 is offline
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As an old copper said, "we don't catch the smart ones".
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  #63  
Old 8 October 2017, 15:01
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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Wearing appropriate attire is the right thing.

I can not control what others do.

I only control my own actions.

Sloven isn't one of them. Casually appropriate is.
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  #64  
Old 8 October 2017, 15:23
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I grew up in a time when on top of wearing a suit and tie, a hat was always worn.

WE could escort passengers onto airplanes, with no security, while wearing Sunday clothes.

While Justice is suppose to be blind, she has been know to be influenced by what is seen. Respect can be a two way street.
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  #65  
Old 8 October 2017, 15:48
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SOW_0331 SOW_0331 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edd1e22 View Post
As an old copper said, "we don't catch the smart ones".
Either you're being obtuse or you've been really lucky.

Finding yourself in a courtroom where your future rests entirely on what a judge thinks of you in the hour he knows you, can happen to just about anyone for any reason. And it doesn't have to have shit to do with being guilty of anything or getting caught.
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  #66  
Old 8 October 2017, 16:13
edd1e22 edd1e22 is offline
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Originally Posted by SOW_0331 View Post
Either you're being obtuse or you've been really lucky.

Finding yourself in a courtroom where your future rests entirely on what a judge thinks of you in the hour he knows you, can happen to just about anyone for any reason. And it doesn't have to have shit to do with being guilty of anything or getting caught.
Irishsoldier posted about individuals charged with "serious crimes" and I was responding to that specific reference.

While I acknowledge there are definitely innocent individuals charged with serious crimes, the vast majority of those in that predicament are not the sharpest individuals to have landed themselves in that predicament to begin with.
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  #67  
Old 8 October 2017, 17:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edd1e22 View Post
Irishsoldier posted about individuals charged with "serious crimes" and I was responding to that specific reference.

While I acknowledge there are definitely innocent individuals charged with serious crimes, the vast majority of those in that predicament are not the sharpest individuals to have landed themselves in that predicament to begin with.
Word. My bad man I didn't include the OP in my perspective at the time. Apologies.
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  #68  
Old 8 October 2017, 19:12
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One of my uncles worked in the high end men's clothing business his whole career, his last stint as Brioni's representative for all of North America.

I don't think I ever saw him in a pair of jeans, and his idea of dressing casually would pass for getting dressed up for a lot of people. It's just the way he was.

The suit and tie is always going to be the de facto uniform for formal occasions and important events, which would include certain court appearances. But I think as a society we've really gotten away from dressing up for special occasions. Just look at some of the college sports team athletes showing up for a meeting with the President at the WH in flip flops.

I recall reading that when Mark Zuckerberg was going around talking to bankers regarding the IPO fundraising for Facebook, a lot of the more conservative, stodgy financiers were said to be offended by his style of dress, which I found amusing.

If anything, they are the ones who should have been pondering what they should wear so as not offend him. They thought he was supposed to be kissing their rings and in reality it was just the opposite. They were probably overdressed for their meeting with him.
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  #69  
Old 8 October 2017, 20:23
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the first person who really started solidifying the whole "you don't need to dress like you're getting married in 20 minutes to signify you're a working professional" was Steve Jobs and his blue jeans and black turtleneck bit he'd do at Apple product launches.

Obviously there is a line between this concept and walking in looking like a fucking disheveled vagrant smelling like a litterbox in July ---- but for the most part I've noticed businesses are replacing the sport coat with a polo shirt. Slacks for blue jeans.
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  #70  
Old 8 October 2017, 22:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post

I recall reading that when Mark Zuckerberg was going around talking to bankers regarding the IPO fundraising for Facebook, a lot of the more conservative, stodgy financiers were said to be offended by his style of dress, which I found amusing.

If anything, they are the ones who should have been pondering what they should wear so as not offend him. They thought he was supposed to be kissing their rings and in reality it was just the opposite. They were probably overdressed for their meeting with him.
It's about reading the power dynamics in a situation and leveraging them in your favor. If suiting up shifts the dynamics in your favor, you do it. If you're Zuck and can afford to be the swinging dick at the table, you don't.
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  #71  
Old 9 October 2017, 00:36
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I had jury duty last week. As they got down to seating a jury there were a couple of us left to question. One goof in mid 20s had shorts on and played with his phone the whole time. Turned out he was prior USAF and should have know better.
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  #72  
Old 9 October 2017, 06:48
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I had jury duty last week. As they got down to seating a jury there were a couple of us left to question. One goof in mid 20s had shorts on and played with his phone the whole time. Turned out he was prior USAF and should have know better.
Perhaps he was hoping that his dress and deportment would lead to his dismissal from the pool of potential jurors....
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  #73  
Old 9 October 2017, 07:21
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Perhaps he was hoping that his dress and deportment would lead to his dismissal from the pool of potential jurors....
Ha. That's what I would have done. It's either that or have myself basically reenact the uncle ruckus courtroom scene to disqualify myself.
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  #74  
Old 9 October 2017, 07:49
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Mingo Kane Mingo Kane is offline
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I did that, got called for jury duty during the peak rut of hunting season. Wore my hunting coveralls and right before I went into the court room, I ate a half-dozen Oreo cookies. After that, all I had to do was grunt out my answers and smile a lot--dismissed.
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  #75  
Old 9 October 2017, 08:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstshirt View Post
Perhaps he was hoping that his dress and deportment would lead to his dismissal from the pool of potential jurors....
Yep. I can see that.
-------------------------------------------------
Everyone else,
Is it wrong for me to note that some of the posts have taken this thread in the grumpy old man direction?
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  #76  
Old 9 October 2017, 08:45
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Nothing to flame. Strong words, strong parenting. The lack thereof makes our headlines daily.
Thank you.
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What it took me many years to figure out is that putting on a suit has nothing to do with you. It is a sign of respect for whomever you are meeting with. If you show up to a job interview with me wearing jeans and a Tshirt you are done as soon as you walk in the door because you didn't respect me or the job enough to even make an effort.
Well said. When an applicant walks in for an interview, I see it as their (or mine if I'm the applicant) opportunity to put their best foot forward. However they dress, I see that as the best they can do. If their appearance/attitude/dress/etc get them the job, why would they ever do any better? I see the interview as the applicant's opportunity to say "here is the best I will ever be while I work for you." If the best they can do sucks, why would I hire them?
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Originally Posted by mdwest View Post
shave this morning? recent hair cut? shoes polished? wearing appropriate clothing? shoulders straight? walking with confidence? etc..etc..
I don't know why, but one of my major interview pet peeves is when people have dirt in the welt of their dress shoes. No matter how well you shine them, take an extra two minutes and run an old toothbrush along the welt.
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Originally Posted by Ole crusty bastard View Post
I grew up in a time when on top of wearing a suit and tie, a hat was always worn.
My great-uncle (veterinarian, WWII Army vet, professor at Purdue) always wore a suit & tie for dinner out, no matter if it was a hamburger or a formal restaurant. It definitely made an impression on me.
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Military uniforms are always recognized as being formal attire in civilian courts even the most pathetically liberal of courts! There are still many people who respect military personnel when they see them in uniform.
As it should be.
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  #77  
Old 9 October 2017, 09:38
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Shit, even LCN guys go for the eastern euro tracksuit look lol. The days of the Dapper Don are gone.
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  #78  
Old 9 October 2017, 09:58
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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Okay, we all agree that one should dress appropiately and smartly, emanating a clean, business look.

Now what about going for a job interview with a company that promotes hippie-like, flip-flop culture?

No jokes, my friend went to such an interview for a quite large IT company. He dressed in a nice suit, was clean shaven, everything in order - and went to the meeting.

Imagine his surprise when his interlocutor entered the room. He was basically wearing Hawaii-like shorts, sandals, and a stretched, old T-Shirt with The Goonies logo. And he had a spotty, unruly beard. He was in his late forties and his attire looked like - to quote my friend - "it was not changed for a considerable mount of time".

10 minutes or so into the meeting the Hippie Guy says, his breath smelling strongly of McDonald's: Well your creds and experience are all in order, but honestly, the way you look....you don't look like you would fit in here. Too formal.

My friend: .......

When in Rome, do as Romans do, I guess...
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  #79  
Old 9 October 2017, 10:11
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Fool_For_A_Client Fool_For_A_Client is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Thank you.

Well said. When an applicant walks in for an interview, I see it as their (or mine if I'm the applicant) opportunity to put their best foot forward. However they dress, I see that as the best they can do. If their appearance/attitude/dress/etc get them the job, why would they ever do any better? I see the interview as the applicant's opportunity to say "here is the best I will ever be while I work for you." If the best they can do sucks, why would I hire them?

I don't know why, but one of my major interview pet peeves is when people have dirt in the welt of their dress shoes. No matter how well you shine them, take an extra two minutes and run an old toothbrush along the welt.

My great-uncle (veterinarian, WWII Army vet, professor at Purdue) always wore a suit & tie for dinner out, no matter if it was a hamburger or a formal restaurant. It definitely made an impression on me.

As it should be.
I'm guessing you don't have to wear a coat and tie / suit for your job everyday? Try being forced to do so, many times in hot and/or stuffy courtrooms. I don't know any lawyer who will wear a coat and tie, or a suit, when they are not forced to. Or anywhere south of Canada. Check out downtown D.C. in the summertime. Nobody wears a coat or tie unless they have a damned good reason.
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  #80  
Old 9 October 2017, 10:11
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Job interviews and courtrooms are two different worlds these days. Research, research, research. Most companies, especially hippy types, have web pages, facebook pages and most of those will have photos of the inner office workings. If you check those, and see a bunch of weed smoking, flip flop wearing hippies, and you want to work in that environment, dress accordingly and bring with you a big Bob Marley dube.
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