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Old 9 October 2017, 11:35
foxcolt13 foxcolt13 is offline
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a little truth about Gulf War Illness coming out.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...erans/1766835/

I was there in 1991 and our chemical detections alarms were going off all the time back in January 91. . I was also exposed to the fallout from the March detonations and was a chemical casualty. The Army covered it up within the hour! The chemical alarms went off so often during the ground war that no one paid any attention to them but after we got back to Germany they were tested and found to be in perfect working order. I hope something gets done about the lies the DOD have been telling all these years.
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Old 9 October 2017, 11:57
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Coming out? That was published in 2012.
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Old 9 October 2017, 12:00
foxcolt13 foxcolt13 is offline
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Coming out? That was published in 2012.
oh well. The DOD cut off Haleys funding in 09 I believe, they don't like their lies being exposed.
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Old 9 October 2017, 13:21
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Hope you got and continue to get all the medical care and compensation you have coming to you.
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Old 9 October 2017, 13:25
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Thanks but I am still fighting for that.
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Old 9 October 2017, 16:11
DB8541 DB8541 is offline
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The Military has always been the lab rats for big Pharma. We were shot up with so many injections of shit that we were voluntold to do. Like the Peristigmien(SP) pills for the nerve gas threats (our gas alarms must have gone off at least 7-8 times during my time there in and near the burning oil fields), Jap B Encephalitis shots in Thailand multiple times, Anthrax shots sometimes double dosed because they lapsed the time frame or just plain lost records or just decide everyone in the unit was going to get them all over again. It never ends and I do not have any facts but something is just off with my body feeling like a 90 year old man. I know a lot of it is from getting banged up over 25 years of service but constant migraine Headaches, body aches, extreme body pain from doing nothing just doesn't add up to me. So I contribute it 25 years of hard service and the shit they made us ingest, shot up with, put on our cammies for bugs, just years and years of being around nasty shit concoctions. Sometimes it makes me wonder, was it all worth it? I am lucky to be financially set, own my home, own property and have money in the bank so things are good but for how long is the question before I come down with something I cannot win against??
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Old 9 October 2017, 17:14
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The Military has always been the lab rats for big Pharma.
Yep.
Try this on for size, though I've posted it here before:

The naval nuclear program gets all of its rules about radioactive stuff from the publication NAVSEA (naval sea systems command) 389-0153, which contains rules based off of federal laws in 10 CFR 20. The 389-0153 has, for naval personnel, the force of law in that violations of it can be pursued criminally as violations of the UCMJ. Among the 0153 rules is that naval personnel can only wear the dosimetric devices issued to them for detection of radiation and may only use navy-issue measuring equipment to gather radiometric data.

Personnel primarily handling nuclear weapons wore lithium fluoride badges that could not be read locally but had to be mailed off to determine exposure. Therefore, the wearer of the badge had to take the word of the navy that their recorded exposure was accurate with no way at question the readings.

Personnel primarily operating or handling things related to nuclear reactors wore capsules containing calcium fluoride chips. The chips could be read locally, and routinely were read on a monthly basis or immediately after an event that could have significantly exposed the wearer to ionizing radiation. The chips and their readers were designed to accurately record exposure to gamma radiation in the 5.5 to 7.5 MeV range which corresponded to the radiation produced from the decay of Cobalt-60 found in the most common form of problematic rust particles in naval reactors. Therefore, they were designed to detect radiation coming from shut down reactor plants or contaminated components removed from the reactor plant, which should be the primary source of radiation to maintenance workers.

The first problem with that is that the most significant radiation release from an operating naval reactor is a gamma not from Cobalt-60, but from Nitrogen-16, and that kind of gamma is closer to 11 MeV. However, even though that gamma is much more energetic and much more destructive than the kind from Co-60, the calcium fluoride tubes are designed in such a way that radiation outside the 5.5 - 7.5 MeV range is not only not measured accurately, but actually causes the recorded exposure level to decrease.

Gammas don't show up by themselves, but are commonly accompanied by beta rays and x-rays. The calcium fluoride tubes don't pick up the betas at all, the x-rays decrease the recorded reading a little, and the N-16 gammas decrease it a lot. That means that the longer one spends around an operating reactor, the less of the radiation exposure recorded from your exposure to Cobalt-60 makes it into your record. That's why, using the navy's instrumentation, you can get less radiation underway for months than you would back at home, because what gives you the most exposure underway effectively erases the record of the exposure you got while tied up to a pier with the reactor shut down. That's why the nukes who get the most exposure are the ones who spend months or years with their boat in overhaul, because the reactor isn't started up to erase anything.

I was a radiological controls supervisor after I was a reactor plant operator. I was a dosimetry reader. There were a few unique occasions when we were required due to circumstances to use off the shelf technology that was not navy issue (teletectors), and on those occasions we were able to check the difference in their readings against calibrated naval equipment. We were not allowed to record teletector readings but could use them as a real-time safety guide to avoid areas of excessive exposure, so there is no written record of what they measured, but I saw those readings and compared them to what our navy equipment was telling us. All radiation surveys taken by naval personnel are recorded on papers marked Confidential, which helps ensure that even the surveys done with rigged naval equipment will never be opened in a civilian courtroom

What happens when someone with a nuclear background gets sick? The first thing is their exposure record is checked, and when it shows that the minimal level of radiation they absorbed couldn't possibly explain what is wrong with them, doctors move on to further tests and lawyers don't have a leg to stand on when trying to sue the navy. Admittedly, it's a pretty ingenious system for maintaining the appearance of safety with an airtight defense in court.
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Old 9 October 2017, 19:23
DB8541 DB8541 is offline
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My son was a sonar tech on a nuke and is having problem after problem now. I wonder if there is any correlation with some type of exposer. I do not know about radiation but he has had a chemical exposure flash in his face and had a heavy box drop onto his neck and shoulder during an on rep. was on the bottom deck so it was a pretty good fall.
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Old 9 October 2017, 20:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxcolt13 View Post
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...erans/1766835/

I was there in 1991 and our chemical detections alarms were going off all the time back in January 91. . I was also exposed to the fallout from the March detonations and was a chemical casualty. The Army covered it up within the hour! The chemical alarms went off so often during the ground war that no one paid any attention to them but after we got back to Germany they were tested and found to be in perfect working order. I hope something gets done about the lies the DOD have been telling all these years.
Worked with three guys that were in the gulf war. Two have passed away and the third is losing ground fast, all from the same cancer.
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Old 9 October 2017, 21:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxcolt13 View Post
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...erans/1766835/

I was there in 1991 and our chemical detections alarms were going off all the time back in January 91. . I was also exposed to the fallout from the March detonations and was a chemical casualty. The Army covered it up within the hour! The chemical alarms went off so often during the ground war that no one paid any attention to them but after we got back to Germany they were tested and found to be in perfect working order. I hope something gets done about the lies the DOD have been telling all these years.
Female friend (Ret LTC) tried to send a NBC 1 (sarin) message off and the Brigade Cdr nix'd it.
She said the NBC guys buttoned up and stayed inside their vehicle until they had to come out.
Bush said a chem attack was a redline, and no one wanted to make him keep his word.
Have to think about all the locals moving through those areas and what low-levels of sarin do to the body.
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Old 9 October 2017, 22:00
foxcolt13 foxcolt13 is offline
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I was told by two Army officers , one from the 101AB and another from the 24th Mech that I was being exposed to Mustard and Sarin gas from detonations from Khamisiya. They were in MOPP 4 when they told me. I was in BDUpants withno shirt. I was already burning when they told me this. The next day I had huge blisters all over my upper body and my throat was hurting and I could barely see. That night blood started pouring out of my mouth and nose and I was shaking badly. The company medic gave me lots of morphine and later had to put a plastic tube down my throat so I could breath. I had this tube for three weeks in and out , the Mustard did a number on my lungs.
The company medic ordered medivacs for me several times but each time they were cancelled by higher command. I suffered greatly but I didn't get the help I need, The medic kept me in morphine and IV's but I still almost died. The medic was threatened with court marshall if he ordered another medivac for me. I witness the cover up first hand. I was told by a friend who worked in perssonel that feds had came there and taken all my records in 91 in Bamberg Germany. They are still missing today. I went from doing 100 push up on my PT test to not passing in a years time. I got so weak that I could barely climb stairs and fell several times coming down the stairs in my barracks. in 93 I got so sick of being ignore and not getting proper medical treatment that I went awol for two weeksjust to get out of the Army so I could seek proper medical treatment.. The cover up continues and I get jerked around by the VA now instead of the Army.
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Old 9 October 2017, 22:11
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My son was a sonar tech on a nuke and is having problem after problem now. I wonder if there is any correlation with some type of exposer.
The sonar techs are among the very few people who live and work in the front end of a sub who ever have a reason to visit the back end, so he would get more exposure than most of those who work up front. However, his exposure would be occasional and momentary, so the other issues you mentioned likely play a larger role in whatever issues he has now.
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Old 9 October 2017, 22:19
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The funny thing was that when my brother was on the Reagan during the Fukushima response and the entire carrier was having radioactive ash rained on them, the safest place to be was down in the shielded reactor chamber. Well, once you shut off the radiation alarms that were screaming nonstop. Flight deck peeps were apparently fucked.
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Old 10 October 2017, 01:26
DB8541 DB8541 is offline
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Originally Posted by ET1/ss nuke View Post
The sonar techs are among the very few people who live and work in the front end of a sub who ever have a reason to visit the back end, so he would get more exposure than most of those who work up front. However, his exposure would be occasional and momentary, so the other issues you mentioned likely play a larger role in whatever issues he has now.
Thank you for the insight. I kind of figured that, he was also on a really old sub, in fact the oldest in the navy nuke fleet at the time. Which sucked for him because he is 6'2" and hit his head a lot haha.
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Old 10 October 2017, 01:52
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I posted this article in 2012 check out the web links

Veterans Health Administration Update:

*Military Exposures*

Doctor smiling at Veteran



Check out the new design of the Military Exposures website www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures

http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures The user-friendly “4 Ways to Find Exposures” serves as a kind of virtual compass pointing visitors to information on a range of chemical, physical and environmental hazards during military service. Visitors can search by: related health concerns, wars and operations, exposure categories, and exposure topics A to Z.
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Old 10 October 2017, 03:44
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Originally Posted by foxcolt13 View Post
I was told by two Army officers , one from the 101AB and another from the 24th Mech that I was being exposed to Mustard and Sarin gas from detonations from Khamisiya. They were in MOPP 4 when they told me. I was in BDUpants withno shirt. I was already burning when they told me this. The next day I had huge blisters all over my upper body and my throat was hurting and I could barely see. That night blood started pouring out of my mouth and nose and I was shaking badly. The company medic gave me lots of morphine and later had to put a plastic tube down my throat so I could breath. I had this tube for three weeks in and out , the Mustard did a number on my lungs.
The company medic ordered medivacs for me several times but each time they were cancelled by higher command. I suffered greatly but I didn't get the help I need, The medic kept me in morphine and IV's but I still almost died. The medic was threatened with court marshall if he ordered another medivac for me. I witness the cover up first hand. I was told by a friend who worked in perssonel that feds had came there and taken all my records in 91 in Bamberg Germany. They are still missing today. I went from doing 100 push up on my PT test to not passing in a years time. I got so weak that I could barely climb stairs and fell several times coming down the stairs in my barracks. in 93 I got so sick of being ignore and not getting proper medical treatment that I went awol for two weeksjust to get out of the Army so I could seek proper medical treatment.. The cover up continues and I get jerked around by the VA now instead of the Army.
I'm curious to what unit you were in and location(s) during DS you served in? A friend who was an 11M out of Germany served in DS. Super squared away when we were in the same unit and he developed some med issues post DS. PCS'd to FT Riley and couldn't get the medical help for his issues and got the run around. His dream was to be a career Soldier but ended up ETSing due to health and frustration he wasn't taken seriously there was something wrong with him. He was embarrassed that he would pass out on simple unit runs. When we were in the same squad, he was a consistent 300+ APFT dude etc.

Do you know of others in your unit with similar issues?
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Old 10 October 2017, 05:31
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I was with 2AD in Saudi and Kuwait; for the ground war we were attached to 2MARDIV. I was the BN chemo. Our M8s went off a lot as well. I think maybe half our batteries were bad, so that was part of it; other times I think it was smoke from oil well fires; the rest...?? Can't count the number of times somebody started yelling "Gas, gas gas!!" (shitty way to wake up). During the push into Kuwait, one of our company commanders called up and said they had found Coke bottles with dark oily liquid and closed w/ saran wrap. Matched what EPWs had described as improvised chemical IEDs. I went up to investigate, used a CAM and 256 kits, but we never did figure out what was in them. After the ground war was over, we had a 5 ton with a bunch of guys in it hit a mine. One of the guys had a shrapnel wound to his stomach. A year later it still wasn't healed properly and he was having issues with fatigue, joint aches etc. I developed chronic fatigue in 2005, lasted for 10 years before I got proper treatment, but I have no idea if it was related to GWS. Weird shit happened there. We'll probably never know the full story. We got all the same stuff mentioned above - drop trou' for anthrax shot, PB tablets etc. Stop taking them, start taking them again, expiration date has been extended, blah blah blah. Still glad I served, but like VN and Agent Orange, the Army owes it to its troops to do all it can to come up with an answer.
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Old 10 October 2017, 06:33
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the Army owes it to its troops to do all it can to come up with an answer.
Good luck with that.
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Old 10 October 2017, 06:34
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Thank you for the insight. I kind of figured that, he was also on a really old sub, in fact the oldest in the navy nuke fleet at the time. Which sucked for him because he is 6'2" and hit his head a lot haha.
I understand. I'm 6'2" and worked with a guy who was 6'4".
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  #20  
Old 10 October 2017, 08:15
foxcolt13 foxcolt13 is offline
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I'm curious to what unit you were in and location(s) during DS you served in? A friend who was an 11M out of Germany served in DS. Super squared away when we were in the same unit and he developed some med issues post DS. PCS'd to FT Riley and couldn't get the medical help for his issues and got the run around. His dream was to be a career Soldier but ended up ETSing due to health and frustration he wasn't taken seriously there was something wrong with him. He was embarrassed that he would pass out on simple unit runs. When we were in the same squad, he was a consistent 300+ APFT dude etc.

Do you know of others in your unit with similar issues?
PM sent
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