Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > The Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12 October 2017, 14:22
Spinner's Avatar
Spinner Spinner is offline
Pele's Bucket of Fire?...never heard of it
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoZeroSix View Post
I don't even get why they feel the need to do this- where I live the Y-Guides hold sway, where dads form "tribes" with their daughters (as I did with both mine) and take them out camping and whatnot. Its so popular in NC that many boys have come over into the program.

I don't know any families that have their girls in Girl Scouts or would even in their wildest dreams want them in Boy Scouts.
Is Y-Guide associated with the whole Indian Princess group?

I never went past Cub Scouts, but I knew a lot of people who stayed with it, including a couple of Eagle Scouts.

Should be interesting to hear what they have to say about it, I doubt they are in favor of combining the two scouting organizations.
__________________
"This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who!"
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12 October 2017, 14:30
leopardprey's Avatar
leopardprey leopardprey is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,991
I am an Eagle Scout and to say I am against this, dismayed, and pissed off is an understatement. Seems much of what I hold dear these days is being destroyed.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Look Sharp, Act Sharp, Be Sharp - But don't cut yourself!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12 October 2017, 14:46
DC Photog's Avatar
DC Photog DC Photog is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigi View Post
Girl Scouts should up their game and teach girls what you said was important. Girls do deserve a program of rigor. Who said they couldnt?

Boy Scouts are down numbers? So? This is suddenly about economics?

Women in this country should just boycott this measure and make Girl Scouts better than Boy Scouts!
They've had how long to do this? They haven't really adapted at all in my opinion. While someone else described them in being the training ground for activists and I'm sure that apt in a lot of ways. Their overall structure has been more geared towards grooming future old school sorority sisters IMO. They never changed their structure to really mature and groom leadership, problem solving, and program management (Eagle project) then the obvious outdoors activities and skills.

The Girl Scouts have done this to themselves for a long time.

Now will this expansion of the Explorers be successful or even close to popular? I doubt it. I was under the impression both had been on the decline for quite a while.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12 October 2017, 14:47
DC Photog's Avatar
DC Photog DC Photog is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
Is Y-Guide associated with the whole Indian Princess group?

I never went past Cub Scouts, but I knew a lot of people who stayed with it, including a couple of Eagle Scouts.

Should be interesting to hear what they have to say about it, I doubt they are in favor of combining the two scouting organizations.
That isn't what is happening, they are attempting to poach the Girl Scouts base.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12 October 2017, 15:47
cedsall's Avatar
cedsall cedsall is offline
giving you a number
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 271
This has been in the works for a long time.

I haven't been involved with the Boy Scouts for a number of years now but some 15-20 years ago the story was the only thing keeping girls out of the Boy Scouts was the Girl Scouts. The Boy Scouts have been working up to this decision for at least a few decades (see Venturing).

There are two sides to the BSA. Those who experienced Scouting as a youth see one side - camping, backpacking, canoeing, archery, rifle ranges, summer camps, den meetings, pack meetings, troop meetings, etc.

Those who experience Scouting as adults get a glimpse at a whole other version - the business of Scouting. And the business of Scouting has been on a downhill slide in the US for a long time.

Sorry to sound so jaded but the Baden-Powell notion of Scouting started fading away in the 1950s. Today it's BSA, Inc and this latest change is just another way of making money.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12 October 2017, 16:40
RGR.Montcalm's Avatar
RGR.Montcalm RGR.Montcalm is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Clearing fields of fire
Posts: 10,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
MF! ...now I'm gonna get strong armed by little kids selling Boy Scout cookies outside Safeway too? Fukkit, I'm contacting the 'smores cartel directly and negotiating a bulk shipment to cut out this middleman BS once and for all.

Better than the crappy popcorn they sell now...I had a Scout master that worked for me and he brought a PALLET of popcorn to work to give away because they couldn't sell it...
__________________
Shallow men believe in luck; strong men believe in cause and effect
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12 October 2017, 17:27
bounceandburst bounceandburst is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southeast
Posts: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
I am an Eagle Scout and to say I am against this, dismayed, and pissed off is an understatement. Seems much of what I hold dear these days is being destroyed.
I'm an Eagle as well and had a rambling reply that I was going to post, but I'll just second your post. Thanks.

The Frankfurt school marches on, it's deplorable.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12 October 2017, 18:42
Tracy's Avatar
Tracy Tracy is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: West
Posts: 10,881
Well, to start with:
I'm an Arrow-of-Light and Eagle Scout. I've been Webelo leader, and a Scout Master three times. My brother is an Eagle Scout, and my son is an Eagle Scout (3d generation). So are a few of my male cousins.

Alright, girls are allowed in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Noted. Almost everyone is against this. Noted. It's another nail in the coffin of our great society. Noted.

So, WHEN girls apply to a local troop, what's going to happen? In most cases, they'll be admitted and will begin participating. In order for both sexes to gain any meaningful enrichment from the program(s), the Parents and the Scout leadership will have to double their efforts; because things will be different. Hell, EVERYTHING will be different.

What I tell my friends that asked about this situation is they can go in several directions:

Ignore and avoid it completely.

Act like antifa and make everyone miserable around you.

Get some new laws enacted, because that's sooo helpful.

Or, dive in with your daughter and make sure the playing field is level. Both genders have qualities and perspectives that can be positive. Don't make them into he-she or she-he or whatever the f*ck the latest craze is. The objective should NOT be to 'normalize' the activities by gender, but to play to each of their strengths.

I seriously considering joining the local VFW troop to get reinvolved; and see if I can help with the adjustment.

Where I see an opportunity to help things out is to focus on the Scout Oath and Law, and emphasize fieldcraft from 50 years ago.

I'm SF, so this isn't my first rodeo with a culture getting mixed up in a blender.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12 October 2017, 19:05
Longrifle's Avatar
Longrifle Longrifle is offline
Sound off for equipment check!
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pergo per caligo...
Posts: 5,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedsall View Post
Sorry to sound so jaded but the Baden-Powell notion of Scouting started fading away in the 1950s. Today it's BSA, Inc and this latest change is just another way of making money.
It was still at 100% B-P when I was in back in the late 50s-early 60s. Cub Scouts started with the Bobcat pin, and earned ranks were Wolf, Bear, and Lion, which made the W-B-L of Webelo. That was completed to "Webelos" only when you became a Scout.

Taking the "outing" out of "Scouting" left you with nothing worth talking about. I was in a Troop in Massachusetts and then on an AFB in Morocco, and it was an excellent experience. I still remember every camp out I went on as a Scout.

By the time my son came along, many of the traditions and activities had treasured had changed, watered down. I saw kids signed off on merit badges they hadn't earned and even saw, in more than one case, Eagle Scout awarded when it wasn't earned. The lesson wasn't lost on my son and many of his friends. After about a year they dropped out, and that was fine with me. A great program for boys had become a shallow reflection of the degeneration of once-highly esteem American values.

Lord Baden-Powell's headstone has the trail symbol for, "I have gone home" engraved on it. That's how I feel about the BSA of today. They can have it, because I'm going home to the great outdoors and values I learned sixty years ago and still hold dear.

BSA is dead, and I miss it terribly at times...
__________________
The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. ~Patrick Henry

"Sēlre bi ghwm t hē his frēond wrece, onne hē fela murne." ~Bēowulf, bearn Ecgēowes
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12 October 2017, 19:36
Kip Kip is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGR.Montcalm View Post
Better than the crappy popcorn they sell now...I had a Scout master that worked for me and he brought a PALLET of popcorn to work to give away because they couldn't sell it...
Don't even get me started on selling popcorn. I was lucky enough that I never had to sell popcorn in Boy Scouts because we had two amazing fundraisers every year that made us more than enough money to operate.

But in Cubs, jesus. It was awful. I was too young to know the numbers, but I know we made *maybe* a third of what we sold.

I know troops in my area that have to sell popcorn and I know they barely make anything on it.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 12 October 2017, 21:12
RGR.Montcalm's Avatar
RGR.Montcalm RGR.Montcalm is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Clearing fields of fire
Posts: 10,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kip View Post
Don't even get me started on selling popcorn. I was lucky enough that I never had to sell popcorn in Boy Scouts because we had two amazing fundraisers every year that made us more than enough money to operate.

But in Cubs, jesus. It was awful. I was too young to know the numbers, but I know we made *maybe* a third of what we sold.

I know troops in my area that have to sell popcorn and I know they barely make anything on it.
Slight hijack-

We had a fundraiser each year in Columbus, GA in the Chattahootchee Council that was the greatest moneymaker and one of the easiest to be successful at. My son was first in cub Scouting then Boy Scouting- I was an ASM for his troop- all military kids in a troop on post in our housing area. We had our own hut- a condemned building near the elementary school. We created Patrol campsites in the woods around it and had campouts on Friday nights.

Anyway, we had a Jamboree each year at the Columbus Auditorium. We sold 'tickets' for the Jamboree that, if you bought one, would immediately 'refund' back your money in the form of a BOGO on a Whopper at BK.

My son and I would stand outside BK on post and ask every person going in if they would like to help Cub/Boy Scouts AND get their money back. For $2 they would get a ticket and it would have the coupon on the back. the council got $1 and the pack/troop got $1.

We were selling one night when the manager came out and asked what we were doing- we showed him and he bought 3 sheets- $60!

My son sold $1000 of tickets($500 back to troop), as did 4 other kids in the troop, along with lesser amounts from the other boys. We were rolling in cash!

The troop bought all new stainless steel chuck boxes and cooking stuff. Merit badges, custom scarves etc...

That's what they need to do instead of that suck ass popcorn...

Hijack over
__________________
Shallow men believe in luck; strong men believe in cause and effect
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12 October 2017, 21:43
Streck-Fu's Avatar
Streck-Fu Streck-Fu is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,321
I really wanted to enjoy Scouts with my boys and we tried it for 3 years in Cub Scouts but the business side killed it for us. Selling crazy expensive popcorn is terrible and the fact that the national organization takes 2/3 and then heavily pushes the Friends of Scouting shit for parents to donate even more.

My wife was talked into being tbe Popcorn Kernel our 2nd year and was ready to quit 2 weeks into the process and throw it all in tje dumpster.

They killed all our optimism in less than 3 years becasue Scouts is all about funding....and if some kids get to go camping in the process....bonus.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12 October 2017, 22:09
Kip Kip is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGR.Montcalm View Post
Slight hijack-

We had a fundraiser each year in Columbus, GA in the Chattahootchee Council that was the greatest moneymaker and one of the easiest to be successful at. My son was first in cub Scouting then Boy Scouting- I was an ASM for his troop- all military kids in a troop on post in our housing area. We had our own hut- a condemned building near the elementary school. We created Patrol campsites in the woods around it and had campouts on Friday nights.

Anyway, we had a Jamboree each year at the Columbus Auditorium. We sold 'tickets' for the Jamboree that, if you bought one, would immediately 'refund' back your money in the form of a BOGO on a Whopper at BK.

My son and I would stand outside BK on post and ask every person going in if they would like to help Cub/Boy Scouts AND get their money back. For $2 they would get a ticket and it would have the coupon on the back. the council got $1 and the pack/troop got $1.

We were selling one night when the manager came out and asked what we were doing- we showed him and he bought 3 sheets- $60!

My son sold $1000 of tickets($500 back to troop), as did 4 other kids in the troop, along with lesser amounts from the other boys. We were rolling in cash!

The troop bought all new stainless steel chuck boxes and cooking stuff. Merit badges, custom scarves etc...

That's what they need to do instead of that suck ass popcorn...

Hijack over
Damn, that's a killer fundraiser.

My former troop used to make between $3k and $4k during our two fundraisers.

Our meeting location happens to be on a lake and every year the city would put on an art show(where artists could rent a tent and sell their art) on the shore of this lake on Mother's Day weekend.

In Florida, it is hotter than hell outside, so we would make a killing on bottled water and parking donations.

The past few years the troop has decided to not do the work of getting all of the water, doing set up, etc., and instead working for the food vendor that gets hired to run all of the food stands. We get paid $10/hour for every boy that works.

I don't think we make as much as we used to.

Our other fundraiser is a car show that is coming up in a couple weeks where we sell bottled water, hot dogs, burgers, etc.

We still make decent money at that, I think.

I haven't been involved in 6 or so years. Been thinking about joining again just to teach the shooting sports merit badges, but this announcement has me reconsidering.

/hijack.

I'm with leopardprey on being against this.

There is no reason for it other than to appease the SJWs who think everything on the planet needs to be integrated.

Girl Scouts just needs to fix their shit. They could do it if they wanted to.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12 October 2017, 22:13
Tycon's Avatar
Tycon Tycon is offline
#BlackRiflesMatter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGR.Montcalm View Post
Better than the crappy popcorn they sell now...I had a Scout master that worked for me and he brought a PALLET of popcorn to work to give away because they couldn't sell it...
I literally still had boxes of 'smores (my vice) rat-holed in my bottom desk drawer when I left. Back behind the hanging files where most people (well, the old timers anyway) kept their vodka.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 12 October 2017, 22:18
Tycon's Avatar
Tycon Tycon is offline
#BlackRiflesMatter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
Where I see an opportunity to help things out is to focus on the Scout Oath and Law, and emphasize fieldcraft from 50 years ago.
This, brother this. x1000.

I'd push my daughter to get involved if that were the currrent values being taught.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 13 October 2017, 07:32
steve steve is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 585
This is all about money and public image. BSA sent surveys asking for the opinion of the membership. Which in reality was a, "this is happening" email. My son is less than pleased.
My daughter is a Venturer and she thinks it's bullshit as well.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 13 October 2017, 13:22
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
Confronting the Reckoning
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Old North West
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedsall View Post
Sorry to sound so jaded but the Baden-Powell notion of Scouting started fading away in the 1950s. Today it's BSA, Inc and this latest change is just another way of making money.
Actually, a fight between those two halves from the very beginning.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 13 October 2017, 17:39
cedsall's Avatar
cedsall cedsall is offline
giving you a number
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longrifle View Post
By the time my son came along, many of the traditions and activities had treasured had changed, watered down. I saw kids signed off on merit badges they hadn't earned and even saw, in more than one case, Eagle Scout awarded when it wasn't earned. The lesson wasn't lost on my son and many of his friends. After about a year they dropped out, and that was fine with me. A great program for boys had become a shallow reflection of the degeneration of once-highly esteem American values.

Lord Baden-Powell's headstone has the trail symbol for, "I have gone home" engraved on it. That's how I feel about the BSA of today. They can have it, because I'm going home to the great outdoors and values I learned sixty years ago and still hold dear.

BSA is dead, and I miss it terribly at times...
I've had much the same experience. Not an Eagle Scout but really enjoyed Scouting when I was a Scout back in the 60s.

I went up through Scouting as an adult with my oldest son in the 80's. Den Leader, Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, and spent some time as both District and Council volunteer staff. Fortunately, we did a lot of our Scouting overseas where it was more traditional than what you got in the US. My younger sons came along 10/12 years after my oldest and by that time (late 90s) Scouting had really lost the allure. They lost interest early (Cubs) and I left along with them.

Side note - I attended Woodbadge while I was stationed in Japan and I think it was one of the last week-long Woodbadge courses. In the states they had transitioned to doing the course in multiple weekends. Part of the 'death by 1000 cuts'. Little bits like that showed that folks were losing the desire to dedicate their time to the cause. When I was a Cubmaster/Scoutmaster, those positions were male-only. I'm pretty sure that's all changed now. More indication of the creeping malaise.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 13 October 2017, 17:50
Tracy's Avatar
Tracy Tracy is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: West
Posts: 10,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
This, brother this. x1000.

I'd push my daughter to get involved if that were the current values being taught.
The way I see it, the only way integrating girls into a cub scout or boy scout unit is to emphasize their differences and adjust accordingly. Gender normalization will just f*ck it up for everybody. Both sexes have strengths and weaknesses.

The Oath, Law and the Outdoors are gender-neutral. Get back to using the 50's and 60's handbooks.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 13 October 2017, 18:14
P304X4's Avatar
P304X4 P304X4 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: High Ridge, MO 63049
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
MF! ...now I'm gonna get strong armed by little kids selling Boy Scout cookies outside Safeway too? Fukkit, I'm contacting the 'smores cartel directly and negotiating a bulk shipment to cut out this middleman [BS] once and for all.

pun points
__________________
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:19.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET