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  #21  
Old 3 December 2016, 23:03
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Sigh. That is one thing I do ponder. Who takes a job at the VA? Are they the Doctors who could not get jobs anywhere else? Or are they Doctors who really want to help veterans or aybe older ones semi-retired, etc.

I ma kind of hoping my Chiropractor is in the later, him being former enlisted himself. Plus, maybe easier for him, in that he can just do his job is on a set salary and not spend 50% of his time trying to run a a business and getting patients signed up for weird stuff or unnecessary treatments to pay his rent, pad his wallet.

At the outpatient clinic we have in my city, we had a REALLY bad Doctor a year ago who was fired. Really neglecting patients and gross incompetence. Some real horror stories.

Terrible:

http://wlfi.com/2015/07/15/news-18-special-report-va-investigating-wl-doctor-after-veterans-complaint/
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  #22  
Old 4 December 2016, 08:59
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Vets getting a card to go anywhere would be great. But , the government will decide as to what ailments can be treated, and based off of percentage a Vet is disabled..
Its sad that people can get free medical , medicaid?, and not done a damn thing for it, and Vets fight the government due to red tape etc just be qualified after serving..
A Vets disability etc should be done prior to leaving service.
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  #23  
Old 4 December 2016, 09:27
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Originally Posted by KimberChick View Post
... . Keep in mind I am a 90% disabled vet. .... There are far too many people using the VA that probably shouldn't be.
http://www.va.gov/vetdata/docs/Quick...rends_2014.PDF

There are about 10 million enrolled in VA - yet less than 4M have a disability (ranging from 0% to 100%). This all started back in the 90's when they created "category 8" and anybody with over 180days active duty and a "good" discharge could enroll. In June 2009 SECVA Shinseki removed income as a consideration for Cat 8, and now, a billionaire with a DD214 can get in. Considering that over 60 % of the patients in VA were never combat wounded, nor injured in service - and one can see the system is overburdened. Keep in mind, the VA itself created the mess. With the WWII vets dying off at over a thousand a day, the bureaucracy had to get new patients into their system, or risk losing it.

Therein is an issue that really needs to be addressed. Keeping in mind that if it weren't for Bud Day, MoH (RIP) retirees wouldn't have TRICARE for life. Military retirees don't rate unfettered and full coverage for their health care - and except for the medically retired, the retirees each gave the country 2 decades of service.

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Last edited by Fu King Lawyer; 4 December 2016 at 09:38.
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  #24  
Old 4 December 2016, 09:36
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Originally Posted by Steve40th View Post
Vets getting a card to go anywhere would be great. But , the government will decide as to what ailments can be treated, and based off of percentage a Vet is disabled..
Its sad that people can get free medical , medicaid?, and not done a damn thing for it, and Vets fight the government due to red tape etc just be qualified after serving..
A Vets disability etc should be done prior to leaving service.
Sounds good in theory (bold), but there are several problems with this. I don't know how the Navy works, but the Army doesn't exactly give much time to have the proper exams done, much less fill out the paperwork and do all the following up and following through. Where in someone's enlistment are they going to have time to do the 6-12 months of jumping through hoops to be able to get proper compensation. The military is water when it comes to compensation claims, and will always take the path of least resistance to their benefit when it comes to getting someone out the door and out of their shortly cropped hair.

They also did, and I'm assuming they still do, a horrible job of informing those leaving active service of their rights where being compensated properly for injuries is concerned. If they were going to do as you suggest then they would need to open an entire clinic just for compensation claims, with numbered stations and a huge chart mapping out precisely in what order a soon to be Vet needs to do everything, to include what paperwork goes where.

Ask as many Vets as you want that are new to the system if they know the difference between the VBA, VHA, and the VA (to name a few), and see what they say. Every Vet should know what these agencies do, who is operating them, and what role they play in our C&P as well as continuing medical care and records. But most have no clue and the military and VA aren't going to tell anyone unless they ask. But how does one ask a question they don't know exists?

As someone stated earlier, the VA is for the VA, it is not for the Veterans, or they would be doing their best to run a campaign to make sure everyone understands how they work and what the Veteran needs to do in relation to that. But they don't, and they won't, because it would pull back the curtain and show who is pulling the levers, and they don't want that because it would make them start to have to actually do what they are supposed to be doing.

ETA: There are also follow-on problems that occur after service that don't exactly show up on a young person's body, but are in direct relation to injuries received while in service. I don't condone going on sick call for every bump and bruise like some are prone to do, but there has to be a way for injury to be allowed to be documented more effectively that doesn't involve the threat of being kicked out of a unit.
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Last edited by Headshot; 4 December 2016 at 09:41. Reason: spelling
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  #25  
Old 4 December 2016, 09:36
Fu King Lawyer Fu King Lawyer is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve40th View Post
But , the government will decide as to what ailments can be treated, A Vets disability etc should be done prior to leaving service.
S,
Please keep in mind the govt runs MEDICARE and it is pretty well regarded. CHAMPVA could be set up to follow the same rules.... Considering that VA is second only to DoD for budget purposes, and giving 4M disabled Vets a CHAMPVA card - the excess funds could be used to "plus up" MEDICARE for years.

My understanding is that nowadays, most people ETSing get a VA rating in conjunction with their ETS physicals?
v/r
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  #26  
Old 4 December 2016, 09:49
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Keep in mind that there is a pattern of the VA doing this same thing over and over. Earlier this year:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/health...hepatitis-hiv/

Hospitals in 4 states warn of possible exposure to hepatitis, HIV

"As one can imagine, he did not return the same way he went," O'Hara said. "He received a general discharge based on an incident that occurred while he was in the armed forces relating to similar conduct."
Citing a Navy spokeswoman, the Denver newspaper reported that Allen was court-martialed in 2011 for stealing fentanyl while deployed with an Army unit in Afghanistan.

They hired the Tech and he had been Court-Martialed for the same conduct while in the military

www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/docs/VA%20Continues%20Notification%20.doc


......We are so screwed.
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  #27  
Old 4 December 2016, 09:51
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Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer View Post
S,
Please keep in mind the govt runs MEDICARE and it is pretty well regarded. CHAMPVA could be set up to follow the same rules.... Considering that VA is second only to DoD for budget purposes, and giving 4M disabled Vets a CHAMPVA card - the excess funds could be used to "plus up" MEDICARE for years.

My understanding is that nowadays, most people ETSing get a VA rating in conjunction with their ETS physicals?
v/r
fkl
I talked to a guy this week, career paratrooper, and he said the same thing. Its part of mandatory out processing.
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  #28  
Old 4 December 2016, 10:44
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Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
I talked to a guy this week, career paratrooper, and he said the same thing. Its part of mandatory out processing.
Where is the failing coming in? Over and over I run into younger Vets who seem to have no idea (admittedly I didn't either) how the system works, and just because they got a rating didn't mean they were "in the system". It just seems insane that the system is so difficult for the average person to navigate that one needs an advocate or agency just to help them figure it out, even then it takes up to a year.

False claims aside, it shouldn't take all the jumping through hoops for service connected injuries to be properly cared for. I've been sitting there looking at the same screen as the person giving me an exam, with the service documented injuries right in front of them and they insist they aren't there when we are both looking at them. One person outright refused to even talk about one of the injuries, I can only guess it was because it validated the progression of the others.

Either every young Veteran I run into is a complete moron, or something needs to change where education about the VA is concerned beyond just documenting injury and being compensated. Admittedly I am not up on the current standard of what happens when a person leaves active service, but it can't possibly be that everyone is just stupid and didn't grasp what they were told, it seems more likely IMO there has to be better dissemination of info.
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  #29  
Old 4 December 2016, 11:02
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When I got out in 2012, the VA came to our TAMP class and started the benefits before discharge program. So, in essence, they came to us, started a process to get us in to VA system, check potential service connected illnesses and did C&P exams. But, nothing was actually started till I got out. One month later, I was approved for service connected disabilities..
I was in Hawaii, so conveniently I had Trippler and VA right there.
When I spoke of the government figuring out who gets what, I am under the impression 10% gets different benefits to a, 30% to a 50% and above etc etc.
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  #30  
Old 4 December 2016, 12:03
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VA compensation (disability pay) is a completely different system than VA health care, they don't talk to each other much if any.

From what I understand, troops getting out now are assisted with going through the disability claims process while ETSing, but I don't know how much they're being taught about navigating the VA healthcare side of the house.
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  #31  
Old 4 December 2016, 12:06
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HIV and HEP ain't enough for the VA, now throw maggots into the mix.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/04...ound-dies.html

Where in the fuck is the accountability?
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  #32  
Old 4 December 2016, 12:59
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Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
VA compensation (disability pay) is a completely different system than VA health care, they don't talk to each other much if any.

From what I understand, troops getting out now are assisted with going through the disability claims process while ETSing, but I don't know how much they're being taught about navigating the VA healthcare side of the house.
VA disability is still part of the VA health system, per sey. If you have an ailment service connected and being financially compensated, then you are more than likely being medically treated for that same condition through the VA health system. True.
And most people ETSing out dont pay attention as much as the retirees, IMHO. I still talk and convince people that have gotten out to at least look into whether or not they are able to be compensated or treated for service connected illnesses. Most have no clue, or even cared..
And with VA healthcare, if qualified, it meets the ACA requirement. For some young single person that cant afford the ACA, this may help them out quite a bit
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  #33  
Old 4 December 2016, 13:44
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Just before I got out of the Navy in 1994, I had to meet with a doctor and sign a paper saying that there was nothing wrong with me. However, it was made known to me that if I said there was anything wrong at all, my discharge could be delayed for as long as it would take to assess and/or treat the situation. At the end of my enlistment I owed the Navy no reserve time, so to admit to any medical issue would have involved voluntarily extending my enlistment. I was young and indestructible, and the medical issues that helped me decide to get out were bearable enough that I decided not to stay in any longer, especially if that meant having the same Navy doctors who had exacerbated my problems being given a free hand to continue their malpractice. As the years went by, I wrongly assumed that I had forfeited the right to have the VA treat my injuries or pay for any disability compensation. I first tried to get the VA ball rolling in 2005, and it only took 11 years of trying to get a disability rating higher than 0%. I am currently rated at 20% but on the advice of my surgeon am appealing for a higher amount which will probably end up being 40%, but every step in the process of dealing with the VA has been an exercise in endless frustration at best and homicidal thoughts with great frequency. I have learned to expect nothing better out of them.
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  #34  
Old 4 December 2016, 15:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
HIV and HEP ain't enough for the VA, now throw maggots into the mix.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/04...ound-dies.html

Where in the fuck is the accountability?
Physician assistant who resigned in wake of veteran's death rehired at another Oklahoma VA center same day

Reading up on the issue I think there is plenty of blame to go around unfortunately some of which belongs to the patient. It would seem the facility is actually a nursing home, the family wanted a morphine PCA for bandage changes and the patient refused amputation and had refused bandage changes due to the pain. Sounds like the patient needed to be in a hospital not at the nursing home but maybe since he was refusing amputation they would not take him. Not sure how if he was a candidate for hospice or not depending on his wishes. I will say I have seen times when the patient "refused" treatment that the staff did not want to do but not saying this happened. Curious how every news article of the 10 I read this morning all end with a VA spokesperson commenting about how the building is 100 years old and their staffing problems.

As a side note I'm always amazed when any medical faculty hires someone "in the program" who already had a narc problem once.
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  #35  
Old 4 December 2016, 17:22
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Originally Posted by jasonglh View Post
Physician assistant who resigned in wake of veteran's death rehired at another Oklahoma VA center same day

Reading up on the issue I think there is plenty of blame to go around unfortunately some of which belongs to the patient...... .
You've hit on what has been mentioned before, how much are Veterans culpable in the negligence of what is available, beyond the obvious malpractice and other blatant issues? From what I've been recently educated on in these threads about what is available now for those exiting the military, it sounds like a mountain of information is available about the VA system than what was made available when I got out.

So with 3 fingers pointing back, what parts of the VA are truly broken compared to what parts are we as Veterans making appear to be broken by lack of follow through, or even as was mentioned, just being rude to the staff that is in place? Let's say the current system is burned to the ground and something new is put in place that seems better, or maybe even really is better, what effect will it have if we don't treat it differently or learn to navigate it properly?

If they replaced the corrupt staff members that exist with a better crop of people based on a better system, we still have to change the culture that now exists with Veterans in regard to the VA, that takes time, possibly a generation. So, in the mean time, how long does it take to start wearing down new staff by having them face Veterans with old attitudes about the system, and so on...

Just my random thoughts.
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  #36  
Old 4 December 2016, 17:50
Steve40th Steve40th is offline
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There is a crap ton of information not known to exiting military personnel. I ensured all my members under me knew everything I possibly knew. It pissed me off to no end when I hear someone got screwed.
Thats when I pull the BCNR, Board of Corrections Naval Records. I have filed quite a few of these for Sailors. All come back in their favor. One was out for several years. He is back in Uniform, serving out his last 5 years of Submarine service. He was wrongfully counseled prior to getting out.
As a Chief, it was my responsibility to take care of all aspects of my Sailors. Even when I got out..
The VA is a mystery to many. We need advocates in there to assist all of us Vets.
I have tried, and its very difficult to get a job within VA etc, whether its DAV, VA etc
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  #37  
Old 4 December 2016, 20:24
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Originally Posted by Steve40th View Post
There is a crap ton of information not known to exiting military personnel. I ensured all my members under me knew everything I possibly knew. It pissed me off to no end when I hear someone got screwed.
Thats when I pull the BCNR, Board of Corrections Naval Records. I have filed quite a few of these for Sailors. All come back in their favor. One was out for several years. He is back in Uniform, serving out his last 5 years of Submarine service. He was wrongfully counseled prior to getting out.
As a Chief, it was my responsibility to take care of all aspects of my Sailors. Even when I got out..
The VA is a mystery to many. We need advocates in there to assist all of us Vets. I have tried, and its very difficult to get a job within VA etc, whether its DAV, VA etc
I know individuals that work at the V.A. who have gotten in a Fight with another individual. One individuals gets 30 days off with out pay but because the other person has a family member working there in a management position that person gets zero time off, then get promoted to a higher position.

The Military that gives a Veteran a disability when discharged can be changed by the V.A review board.

Most veterans don't realize, that if they are i.e. discharged on the east cost an move back to there home state. NEED to register with there local V.A.

This can effect them be sent a letter that they need a follow up exam for something. It goes to the last known address they had when discharged. It will be returned MOVED ADDRESS UNKNOWN. What happens No further action an the Veteran will not get the required disability do them.

Any time a Veteran is traveling on Vacation etc. out of state for an length of time stop in an register at the local V.A.

I see Veterans that are traveling an need a refill on Meds. just because they ran out of the meds. All it takes is to register with that local V.A. a Emergency Room visit etc. JUST DON"T WAIT UNTIL THE LAST SECOND.

We need advocates in there to assist all of us Vets. Yes if they did there job right. CA V.A. System

Last edited by wildman43; 4 December 2016 at 20:27. Reason: wording
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  #38  
Old 4 January 2017, 11:37
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Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer View Post
For the love of God - VA keeps going down the tubes. More Vets exposed to contamination - it's been going on for decades.
It would be a simple fix to give all disabled Vets a CHAMPVA card that covers 100% of treatment and 100% of Rx. Take the surplus VA money and plus up MEDICARE.

.............
/
I've been saying the same thing for years. The VA is beyond fixing.

The Marion IL facility's ability to do surgeries was shut down for two years due to a non-licensed "doctor" who was doing surgeries. 9 men died.

http://www.veteransresources.org/for...9-deaths.3451/

If one has anything major done at the VA, it is a crap shoot as to the outcome.
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  #39  
Old 4 January 2017, 13:16
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Point Of Order Gentlemen (and I am usually that noun very loosely). I used to work at the Ann Arbor VA in IT & HR. This will cover a couple of topics.

The below linked article pretty much nails the central problem preventing real reform at the VA. The article nails the topic precisely.

http://taskandpurpose.com/one-proble...-va-secretary/

Executing the SecVA or a DepSec after every fuck up has not worked. In my near ten years with the VA I believe there were SIX SecVA's. How the fuck does anything get fixed if you don't have continuity of command. IME in the Marines, then Army; Commanders served generally through a incoming IG and a outgoing IG. The FBI was having similar issues till the Director was given a 10 years term. That way change can be initiated and followed through on rather than the permanent middle managers just waiting for the hired help to get fired and replaced.

Consider that privatizing the VA could do more harm than good by possibly eliminating services like prosthetic services and mental health services that have very specific knowledge and experience with veterans issues. This requires VERY close scrutiny and is opposed by some of the VSO's for that reason.

Now for the contaminated instrument issues. First the Dentist. WTF was a Dentist doing cleaning their own damn instruments anyway. IF the Dentist actually was cleaning the instruments. The VA has Dental Assistants and Dental Hygienists to do that. They also can take the time to do it right. I have not seen anything than other than being the fall guy, that the Dentist was involved in the cleaning.

Other instruments like scopes and such are cleaned and sterilized centrally in a facility in a sterile environment. Also anything that can be sourced as a disposable; is. IME, other than being a janitor in a VA, that is the most thankless and nerve raking job in a VA hospital. Each type of instrument has a specific process to go with specific chemicals to be used singularly or in combination. The Joint Commission and VA QC people demand that those doing these procedures be able to recite them ALL from memory and explain what each chemical in the process does. I know for a fact that good people at Ann Arbor lost their jobs because the inquisition while they were working unnerved to not being able to answer questions. I don't believe they are allowed to use checklists while working. There is also a lot of pressure for turn around of instruments at times.

This is a VA wide problem that gets a LOT of press. While the Joint Commission procedural requirements are welded in place, the working spaces may not be given the same gravity to enable a smooth work flow or there should be a method somehow to put all the processes in a checklist format displayed a fashion as a work aid. The inquisition questioning of employees may be too much. While Pilots can probably recite common checklists from memory, can they do it for each checklist they have? One question I have is how often this happens in the private/non-VA/non-DOD facilities?
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  #40  
Old 6 January 2017, 18:42
Fu King Lawyer Fu King Lawyer is offline
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For some reason my "quote" function won't let me crop. RetPara wrote
"Consider that privatizing the VA could do more harm than good by possibly eliminating services like prosthetic services and mental health services that have very specific knowledge and experience with veterans issues. This requires VERY close scrutiny and is opposed by some of the VSO's for that reason."

DoD is head and shoulder above VA with prosthetics and PTSD/Mental Health services. With the legislation to privatize medical coverage for disabled Vets should be the authorization for DoD to continue treatment for amputees and soldiers needing mental health services.

The VA system is antiquated and was designed to care for the WWI and WWII generations. Now that they are all but gone, the number of Vets is in freefall. Any major medical center in the US has more experience treating blunt force trauma, gunshots, and burns than most military hospitals and all VA medical centers. As the number of Vets and patient base plummets, the VA bureaucrats are expanding services to non-combat wounded/non service connected injured Vets. There is way to much "cheating" by bureaucrats trying to keep their civil service benefits - as opposed to providing competent medical services to Vets. YMMV but I found VA to be beyond repair. I am sure if the private/non-VA facilities had similar failures as the VA, state authorities (and the tort lawyers) would have them closed down. The VA has the federal tort claims act which shields the VA from being held accountable. Many states (unfortunately) shield VA medical personnel practicing medicine from scrutiny by state medical boards even when the malpractice is clear.
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