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  #1  
Old 28 January 2019, 22:59
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5 cops shot in Houston

https://www(DOT)google.com/amp/s/www...amp/ncna963756

Warrant service gone horribly wrong.
Here’s to a speedy recovery.
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Old 28 January 2019, 23:01
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I was just reading about them. Prayers out for a complete and speedy recovery. Serving warrants has been rough the last couple of months. Stay safe out there my brothers.
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Old 28 January 2019, 23:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitebean54 View Post
https://www(DOT)google.com/amp/s/www...amp/ncna963756

Warrant service gone horribly wrong.
Here’s to a speedy recovery.
Busy start to the New year.
Speedy recovery for sure. Glad the POS's are dead.
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Old 29 January 2019, 04:45
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I have a question: As we learned from the local sheriff in Waco 25 years ago who could have peacefully grabbed Koresh at the feed store if ATF had notified him (his words IIRC) - why can't all these warrant dudes be nabbed as they're be-bopping around buying Yeezy's or something? Is it because 3AM at the crib is safer for the public? I would think these dudes eventually end up in a car somewhere less populated? Just a random thought I had - why go to the fortified castle, when you can grab him where he's less advantaged?
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Old 29 January 2019, 05:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
I have a question: As we learned from the local sheriff in Waco 25 years ago who could have peacefully grabbed Koresh at the feed store if ATF had notified him (his words IIRC) - why can't all these warrant dudes be nabbed as they're be-bopping around buying Yeezy's or something? Is it because 3AM at the crib is safer for the public? I would think these dudes eventually end up in a car somewhere less populated? Just a random thought I had - why go to the fortified castle, when you can grab him where he's less advantaged?
Often the residence is the easiest location to control, with minimal bystanders, avenues and opportunities to escape.

Sometime's it's the only known location.

Lots of variables. Many LE agencies do formal risk assessments for any/all tasks like this. Some don't. There's no one-size-fits-all solution.
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Old 29 January 2019, 06:57
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From the reports, sounds like this was a drug case and narcotics and patrol were executing a search warrant. They were immediately welcomed with gunfire.

IIRC, a few people around here are opposed to SWAT teams executing search warrants on dope houses. This seems like it would have been a good opportunity to use SWAT. Maybe at first glance the op didn’t trip the SWAT matrix. Maybe it did and the narc guys thought they could handle it. Maybe a matrix wasn’t even completed.

Either way, prayers and speedy recovery to the wounded.
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Old 29 January 2019, 08:16
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Prayers and speedy recovery
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Old 29 January 2019, 11:08
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Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
I have a question: - why can't all these warrant dudes be nabbed as they're be-bopping around buying Yeezy's or something? Is it because 3AM at the crib is safer for the public? I would think these dudes eventually end up in a car somewhere less populated? Just a random thought I had - why go to the fortified castle, when you can grab him where he's less advantaged?
Poly,
Police can (and should) control the arrest situation.
As is mentioned, below, they were probably serving a search warrant.
Another reason in an arrest warrant (only) situation, is "an idea" they get in training. It is called a "Buie sweep" and allows officers to look around the house where the Defendant is arrested - they can seize anything they find in plain view. Oftentimes, that evidence will justify a subsequent application for a search warrant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_v._Buie

I try not to judge the actions until all the facts are known.
Prayers out.
v/r
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Old 29 January 2019, 12:11
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Speedy recovery, I believe we have members who are HPD. They all safe and unhurt?
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Old 29 January 2019, 12:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
I have a question: As we learned from the local sheriff in Waco 25 years ago who could have peacefully grabbed Koresh at the feed store if ATF had notified him (his words IIRC) - why can't all these warrant dudes be nabbed as they're be-bopping around buying Yeezy's or something? Is it because 3AM at the crib is safer for the public? I would think these dudes eventually end up in a car somewhere less populated? Just a random thought I had - why go to the fortified castle, when you can grab him where he's less advantaged?
We have members here who do a lot of snatching bad guys at gas stations or elsewhere. It requires some manpower for establishing a pattern of life. It’s a technique. You run the risk of involving the public both at the location and on the road. We had some investigators let a suspect get mobile and were going to conduct a traffic stop on him. Pursuit kicks off, multiple crashes and the dude offs himself anyway.

Also what FKL said about pain view.
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Old 29 January 2019, 14:32
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Godspeed Gents.

Since this is not a condolences / RIP thread, we can discuss the tactics here if so desired.

I am with Poly, there have been thousands of these ops go well and as many go badly. When do we learn from the Lessons learned and Best Practices? Is it the brass that fails to yield to proper planning and risk management? Politicians?
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Old 29 January 2019, 14:36
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Godspeed Gents.

Since this is not a condolences / RIP thread, we can discuss the tactics here if so desired.

I am with Poly, there have been thousands of these ops go well and as many go badly. When do we learn from the Lessons learned and Best Practices? Is it the brass that fails to yield to proper planning and risk management? Politicians?
Just as many go bad? How do you figure?
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Old 29 January 2019, 15:42
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Godspeed Gents.

Since this is not a condolences / RIP thread, we can discuss the tactics here if so desired.

I am with Poly, there have been thousands of these ops go well and as many go badly. When do we learn from the Lessons learned and Best Practices? Is it the brass that fails to yield to proper planning and risk management? Politicians?
I would challenge your assertion as many warrant services go bad as go good...if that was in fact what you intended to say. To the contrary, the overwhelming majority of warrant services go as planned or just about as planned. The public sees only the shit show's....which when they occur are often tragic. More to your point; with so many different local, municipal, county, state and federal LEO's running around best practices don't always filter the way one would hope. There is very little continuity of training. I'm not sure what the circumstances of the warrant were but I'd think Houston PD is a pretty squared away organization. I'm not sure what kind of intelligence information the police had but maybe it was bad, incomplete or they ignored it...perhaps the PD made a huge mistake. Remember, the bad guys have a say as well.
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Old 29 January 2019, 16:13
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Arrest warrant or search warrant?

Arrest warrant- sure, catch them out somewhere (if you can limit exposure/danger to the public).

Search warrant- self-explanatory. And someone is going to be there. I doubt too many dope houses are left unoccupied. The primary target might leave, but someone is going to be there if there's a stash. If not, then you've picked the wrong time to serve your SW.
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Old 29 January 2019, 16:26
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I would challenge your assertion as many warrant services go bad as go good...if that was in fact what you intended to say. To the contrary, the overwhelming majority of warrant services go as planned or just about as planned. The public sees only the shit show's....which when they occur are often tragic. More to your point; with so many different local, municipal, county, state and federal LEO's running around best practices don't always filter the way one would hope. There is very little continuity of training. I'm not sure what the circumstances of the warrant were but I'd think Houston PD is a pretty squared away organization. I'm not sure what kind of intelligence information the police had but maybe it was bad, incomplete or they ignored it...perhaps the PD made a huge mistake. Remember, the bad guys have a say as well.
Focusing on the intel portion of these types of operations. Intel goes both ways.
What I mean by this is the possibility of high level shitheads having a friend/family member in the DAs office, the DMV or somewhere else in the .gov feeding them information about who/what investigators are looking at.
Like Five-O said, HPD is pretty squared away.
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Old 29 January 2019, 16:49
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There have been some good replies thus far and I will add my dos centavos.
I can only speak from my observations and experiences from executing a number of search warrants/arrest warrants. While I always weighed the who/what it was I was looking for, generally speaking, I always tried to control/isolate and contain the premise/location in question. I would rather have a barricade then a running gun battle or car chase through the streets. I don’t mention foot chases because quite frankly I’m not chasing some drug dude through the streets when I can come back in two days and find them hanging out. These guys would win gold medals at the subway Olympics and I was built for knocking things down and not speed ☺.

I admit that when I was a young centurion booming doors was fun until it wasn’t. In those days there was no such things as raid jackets etc. and it didn’t take long for a perp to start busting caps at us as we made entry. We didn’t have helmets; heavy vests and all the fancy shit folks show up w/now. We had 38’s and Stevens 311 12 ga. shotguns. Don’t let anyone tell you a 12 gauge does not get the job done at police shooting distances. In this instance it was my 3rd shooting in 4 years and upon reflection many years later I came to the conclusion that it probably was avoidable. Experience is the best teacher.

While there are many TTP’s that I would always do they would be adjusted subject depending. I would handle members of Jamaican Posses’ the same I would handle Colombian Cartel traffickers and shooters. Russian/Albanian OC guys got same consideration. Traditional mob guys were handled differently. Folks slinging nickel bags of pot got a knock on the door and were subject to some trickery and deceit.

There are many reasons why the police boom doors and I agree it’s not always the best option. Sometimes the location is the subject of community complaints so a dog and pony show is in order. Show the flag if you will. Sometimes it’s politicians applying pressure. I could discuss this all day without trying to change anyone’s mind/opinion.

I will leave you with this final thought. If I were king of police for a day. I would not allow ANY booming of the doors for narcotics trafficking. If the load is so big it won’t be destroyed too quickly so time is on my side. If it’s so small that there is a bag of whatever and some residue then IMHO that is not worth getting capped for nor is it worth dropping the hammer on the dealer. I know this puts me at odds with some members of my former community and that’s cool.
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Old 29 January 2019, 16:54
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I know this puts me at odds with some members of my former community and that’s cool.
I think you would be mistaken with this sentence. Great post.
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Old 29 January 2019, 17:19
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I think you would be mistaken with this sentence. Great post.
We are unanimous in that.
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Old 29 January 2019, 17:32
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I would not allow ANY booming of the doors for narcotics trafficking.
BOOM. Most LEO's with any warrant experience (most have none) would agree 100% with the above.
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Old 29 January 2019, 17:43
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BOOM. Most LEO's with any warrant experience (most have none) would agree 100% with the above.
Can’t really disagree.... the “young centurion” in me wants to disagree but my experience has to concur with this. Normally, straight up narcotics warrants (while very rare for me) are usually pretty “whomp whomp”.

There’s usually a body or attempted murder tied to the dope before we start banging doors.
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