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  #21  
Old 15 May 2009, 15:45
Albo Albo is offline
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I was a Flash qualified E2 in 83

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Dwife View Post
In 1981 could a PFC have the Long Tab ?
Would that have been possible
Under certain circumstances it was possible to be SF qualified as a very junior enlisted soldier. I had a three year break in service, separated as an E4 and came back in in '83 as an E2 but fully flash/SF qualified. But I also originally came into SF as an "SF Baby".

No "long tabs" until later.
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  #22  
Old 15 May 2009, 17:07
18Dwife 18Dwife is offline
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I have asked around and no one knows this guy .
I think he is a poser
I know he is crazy
He gave me a hard time for awhile ,but I haven't had any problems for the past few weeks .
I actually feel he is an extremely dangerous person .
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  #23  
Old 15 May 2009, 19:26
JJ_BPK JJ_BPK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Dwife View Post
In 1981 could a PFC have the Long Tab ?
Would that have been possible
No, Because the Long Tab was not issued until January 1988. But, if he was "S" or "3" qualified then the Tab is retroactively issued.

From the Book: AR 600-8-22

[quote]

8–49. Special Forces Tab

a. Any person meeting one of the criteria below may be awarded the Special Forces (SF) Tab:
  • (1) Successful completion of USAJFKSWCS approved Active Army (AA) institutional training leading to SF qualification.
  • (2) Successful completion of a USAJFKSWCS approved Reserve Component (RC) SF qualification program.
  • (3) Successful completion of an authorized unit administered SF qualification program.
b. For active component institutional training, the SF Tab may be awarded to all personnel who meet the following:

(1) For successful completion of the Special Forces Qualification Course or Special Forces Detachment Officer Qualification Course (previously known as the Special Forces Officer Course). These courses are/were conducted by the USAJFKSWC (previously known as the U.S. Army Institute for Military Assistance).

(2) Prior to 1 January 1988 for successful completion of the then approved program of instruction for Special Forces qualification in a Special Forces Group, who were subsequently awarded, by competent authority, SQI “S” in Career Management Field 18 (enlisted), or SQI “3” in Functional Area 18 (officer).

c. For Reserve Component (RC) SF qualification programs, the SF Tab may be awarded to all personnel who successfully complete a RC SF qualification program according to TRADOC Regulation 135–5, dated 1 June 1988 or its predecessors and who were subsequently awarded by competent authority, SQI “S” or “3” in MOB 11B, 11C, 12B, 05B, 91B, or ASI “5G” or “3”. The USAJFKSWCS will determine individual entitlement for award of the SF Tab based on historical review of Army, Continental Army Command (CONRAC), and TRADOC regulations prescribing SF qualification requirements in effect at the time the individual began an RC SF qualification program.

d. For unit administered SF qualification programs, the SF Tab may be awarded to all personnel who successfully completed unit administered SF qualification programs as authorized by regulation. The USAJFKSWCS will determine individual entitlement to award of the SF Tab based upon historical review of regulations prescribing SF qualification requirements in effect at the time the individual began a unit administered SF qualification program.

e. The SF Tab may be awarded retroactively to all personnel who performed the following wartime service.

(1) From 1942 through 1973. Served with a Special Forces unit during wartime and were either unable to or not required to attend a formal program of instruction but were awarded SQI “S”, “3”, or “5G” by competent authority.

(2) Prior to 1954. The SF Tab may be awarded prior to 1955 for at least 120 consecutive days in one of the following organizations:
  • (a) 1st Special Service Force, August 1942 to December 1944.
  • (b) OSS Detachment 101, April 1942 to September 1945.
  • (c) OSS Jedburgh Detachments, May 1944 to May 1945.
  • (d) OSS Operational Groups, May 1944 to May 1945.
  • (e) OSS Maritime Unit, April 1942 to September 1945.
  • (f) 6th Army Special Reconnaissance Unit (Alamo Scouts), February 1944 to September 1945.
  • (g) 8240th Army Unit, June 1950 to July 1953
.

(3) From 1954 through 1975. Any company grade officer or enlisted member awarded the CIB or CMB while serving for at least 120 consecutive days in one of the following type organizations:
  • (a) SF Operational Detachment-A (A–Team).
  • (b) Mobile Strike Force.
  • (c) SF Reconnaissance Team.
  • (d) SF Special Project Unit.
  • f. The Commander, U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center (USAJFKSWCS), Fort Bragg, NC
  • 28307–5000 and the Commander, USA HRC (AHRC–PDO–PA), Alexandria, VA 22332–0471.
  • g. See paragraph 1–31 for revocation/reinstatement policy of the SF Tab.
  • [quote]


Hope this helps..
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Last edited by JJ_BPK; 15 May 2009 at 19:28.
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  #24  
Old 15 May 2009, 21:57
mark46th mark46th is offline
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I started training group in '71. The deal then was a promotion of one grade when phase I was completed, I made PFC. When I graduated from commo school, I made Spec 4. When I graduated from phase III, and went into group, I made Sgt E-5...I got lucky hitting the schools without any breaks. I was only at Bragg for 2 days when we went into Mackall in February, 3 days after Mackall, a Commo Course started. I already knew IMC so I graduated in a short time, at the end of April. Then I started Phase III, graduating at the June of 71.

My best friend in SF medically recycled through Phase I 4 times....at the end of june 71.

Last edited by magician; 16 May 2009 at 16:50.
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  #25  
Old 3 June 2009, 17:32
sfmedicw9 sfmedicw9 is offline
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question

lets say forget about the tab - lets just say - graduated the Q course in 83

i could see e4s graduating because at that time some of the promotion points for e5 was way out there in la la land but......

How could an e3 be standing at graduation after completing Phase III ??

wouldnt that imply a severe fuckup along the way??
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  #26  
Old 3 June 2009, 22:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK View Post
( ->snipped.....a lot<-)

No, Because the Long Tab was not issued until January 1988. But, if he was "S" or "3" qualified then the Tab is retroactively issued.
Which means yes.....actually.....if, after a bust for this or that......the individual in question could have been a tabbed E-3......not out of the question, just a bit unusual...
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  #27  
Old 3 June 2009, 22:31
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Guy
Yes, I graduated SFQC Class 1-81 as a PFC.

I was awarded the "S" identifier and a full flash on my beret.


At 19 years old.
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  #28  
Old 11 June 2009, 09:09
sfmedicw9 sfmedicw9 is offline
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i still dont get it- i dont think they took folks off the street in the 70s and 80s

i remember they played around with a soft skill course once but as far as those training for group -they showed up with a tour under their belt

wow what a way to start a career
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  #29  
Old 11 June 2009, 10:07
HKUSP45 HKUSP45 is offline
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When I went through the course, the training group CSM said he had been a tabbed PFC who came in off the street in 81, if I recall correctly.

HK
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  #30  
Old 11 June 2009, 11:01
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SF babies

What you guys call 18X's now we called SF babies in the early 80's. My first team in early 84 had a corporal that graduated as an E3 in 83 and made E4 on the team and we made him (put him in for) corporal. We faced the same issues then that you guys face now. Some were shitbags, lost weapons in the field etc. Some now serve at the highest levels in the Special Operations Community.

I am confident that GreenHat saw the same thing in the roman legion LOL
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  #31  
Old 11 June 2009, 13:32
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HighDragLowSpeed HighDragLowSpeed is online now
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When i went through for my second MOS in 89, there was a reserve guy that was an E-1 all the way through the end of the old phase 2 about 1 month from graduation. If i recall correctly, his reserve unit basically forgot about him and didnt push through the promotion paperwork.

We were all telling him not to push the issue so he could be the first E1 to get his tab but he did. I thought it was bad being on Bragg as a tabbed E-4 (went to PLDC with a tab and had a CSM screaming at me at one of the commissaries..."umm..but I earned it" was my response which didnt help) - imagine being a tabbed E-2.

I'll never forget his story though about the looks he got while picking his uniform up from one of the Korean cleaners with his long tab and E-2 mosquito wings before heading off to Robin Sage.
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  #32  
Old 11 June 2009, 16:47
doshei doshei is offline
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How could he have his tab prior to Robin Sage? Am I missing something? I was tabbed as a SP4/CPL (both) by the way.
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  #33  
Old 12 June 2009, 17:07
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RGR.Montcalm RGR.Montcalm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfmedicw9 View Post
i still dont get it- i dont think they took folks off the street in the 70s and 80s

i remember they played around with a soft skill course once but as far as those training for group -they showed up with a tour under their belt

wow what a way to start a career
I nearly enlisted SF in 1976 (DEP to June 77) as a PFC. The folks at the JAX FL AFES (Armed Forces Entrance Station, better known as MEPS today) had a contract sending me to BCT, Infantry AIT, Jump School, then 7th Group at Bragg...

Unusual, yup, because I REALLY wanted to be an ABN RGR and wouldn't sign until I got a slot...
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  #34  
Old 12 June 2009, 17:28
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HighDragLowSpeed HighDragLowSpeed is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doshei View Post
How could he have his tab prior to Robin Sage? Am I missing something? I was tabbed as a SP4/CPL (both) by the way.
I think that it was that they had you sew on your tab prior to leaving for Robin Sage so you'd be all set for graduation. If not, it was in the few days between your return and the graduation...I recall it being the former as he had his "skitter wings" sewn on at the same time.
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Last edited by HighDragLowSpeed; 12 June 2009 at 17:31.
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  #35  
Old 13 June 2009, 00:18
mark46th mark46th is offline
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What you called S.F.Babies and 18X's we called Snuffies....I was a Snuffie from Feb '71 until I graduated from Phase III...
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  #36  
Old 13 June 2009, 14:23
ExSquid ExSquid is offline
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We had a hanger inspection of our Class A's w/ Tab & SSI prior to Sage.

x/S
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  #37  
Old 13 June 2009, 15:21
Greenhat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
What you guys call 18X's now we called SF babies in the early 80's. My first team in early 84 had a corporal that graduated as an E3 in 83 and made E4 on the team and we made him (put him in for) corporal. We faced the same issues then that you guys face now. Some were shitbags, lost weapons in the field etc. Some now serve at the highest levels in the Special Operations Community.

I am confident that GreenHat saw the same thing in the roman legion LOL
Hey!! I'll have you know that I saw the same thing with the Khan's troops... although they averaged better than most...

LOL
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  #38  
Old 15 June 2009, 06:29
sfmedicw9 sfmedicw9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExSquid View Post
We had a hanger inspection of our Class A's w/ Tab & SSI prior to Sage.

x/S

I wonder if they are going to do that before florida phase in ranger school ?

for all you ranger school aspirants - get the tattoo and sew those tabs on before showing up at Benning. if your lucky the RIs will reward your enthusiasm and initiative
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  #39  
Old 15 June 2009, 10:23
MDH MDH is offline
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In the early 80’s you could enlist for the Special Forces option, think it was a $2500 bonus. ; I was one of the SF babies; I was a PFC when I graduated the Q Course…, think I made E-4 on an ODA. Think we had about half a dozen of us "young guys" on the team. Not sure when the Army stopped that program.
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  #40  
Old 15 June 2009, 14:36
Slammer567 Slammer567 is offline
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I came right out of HS and enlisted in '74 under the Guaranteed Unit of Choice/MOS option. I chose the 5th SFGA and 91B (medic) which automatically put me in the pipe line. I was lucky enough to make SP4 while still in training (there were a number of my class mates that graduated as PFC's). Hell, I volunteered for Ranger School so I could make E-5!
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