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Old 1 March 2009, 20:43
180A 180A is offline
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UW

I just have a couple of things to say to new guys coming to an SFODA. You FNGs need to get to a team and learn everything you can about UW. SF is now always about kicking in a door. There are a ton of other things you have to learn to be successful. So get it out of your head that all SF does is kick in doors. We are UW experts, or at least we are supposed to be. You need to grab the manuals when you get to a team and read them. We work by, through and with the indig.Stop complaining that we don't do enough DA. Ask the Sr guys any questions about the mission sets and they will be more than happy to teach you. Learn the SOF imperatives. Ask your Sr guys for the manuals. I am not going to put the FMs up on this site, just ask your SR guys or the BN warrant. Learn to be a people person, learn to network, take initiative, STAY IN SHAPE, I am tired of seeing FAT guys coming out of the Q. The last thing I am going to say, is you should always be learning, always. Everyone should no matter what their rank, and have fun, its an awesome job.
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Old 1 March 2009, 21:12
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Yep...great post 180A!
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Old 1 March 2009, 21:33
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Originally Posted by 180A View Post
STAY IN SHAPE, I am tired of seeing FAT guys coming out of the Q.
Well... your totally right! How someone can be allowed to fail a PT test and stay in the Q is still unclear to me. And that is at the "Army standard" It's pathetic! In a word, fuck them! In Regiment these POS would be gone, but they are allowed to stay here.

And now my next question, besides guys coming from Regiment, who really had a job of "kicking doors" Not the MP's in the course, not the leg 11B's. I've got zero team time but from what I see in the course Most guys can't even shot a pistol well.
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Old 1 March 2009, 21:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers snaplink
Well... your totally right! How someone can be allowed to fail a PT test and stay in the Q is still unclear to me. And that is at the "Army standard" It's pathetic! In a word, fuck them! In Regiment these POS would be gone, but they are allowed to stay here....
Please don't take my post as anything but curiosity -- not as doubting what you are stating -- but are you serious? You are not exaggerating? Holy cow if you answer affirmative....
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Old 1 March 2009, 21:53
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180A. Excellent Post. Thank you.
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Old 1 March 2009, 22:16
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Thumbs up

STAY IN SHAPE, I am tired of seeing FAT guys coming out of the Q.

I am just a wife so I know my opinion doesn't matter BUT I totally agree with that statement ..that is all :)
Shutting up now
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Old 1 March 2009, 22:35
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Yeah guys I could go on and on about some of the crap I see coming out of the course. However, not all of the guys are bad, I got some new guys last year who are squared away, and I am not an 18X naysayer; some of those young cats have been good as well.

As for those guys not being able to shoot a pistol well, no problem, I can whip them into shape in no time at all. Most of those guys never handle pistols before they get to a team, even infantry guys.

All I am asking, is come to the teams squared away with no chip on your shoulder, and if you have one, you will promptly be working in the arms room, or S3. Just come with an open mind, learn learn learn and don't get fat.
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Old 2 March 2009, 00:56
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"Well... your totally right! How someone can be allowed to fail a PT test and stay in the Q is still unclear to me. And that is at the "Army standard" It's pathetic! In a word, fuck them! In Regiment these POS would be gone, but they are allowed to stay here. "

Sir,

You are joking, right ?! If not, how the #@&% does that work ?
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Old 2 March 2009, 01:18
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http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=81005

See Post #17

--------------------
And that's all I'm a gonna say about that.
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Old 2 March 2009, 03:30
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180A: Great Post.

CB: Great Post and Cross Thread.

A few caveats:

The primary mission of US Army Special Forces is to teach. No other combat organization on this planet has that mandate as their first responsibility.

The secondary missions are intelligence, security and combat operations.

What do we teach? Intelligence, security and combat operations. Whom do we teach? Foreign nationals. Where do we teach? On their land. When do we teach? Any time, any condition. How do we teach? In their language, with their customs, using their equipment.

Almost 70% of the Earth's population live in built-up areas. So you'll see a lot of urban terrain. Urban Environment does NOT equal DA Missions. Study your history: Paris, Rome, Seoul, Mogadishu, Warsaw, Mexico City, etc.

--------------

Now, I'm going to rant a bit about PT Standards:

First off, I'm no PT stud by any stretch of the imagination. From Phase Training all the way through to retirement. I'm a skinny runt.

Second, the fattest-looking slobs that I ever saw come through the course were Rangers from the Battalions. Remember, I went through SF training with first-generation Batt Boys in the 70's. They failed PT tests just as often as the rest of us mere mortals.

Third, we had more FAT-ASSES on the Teams by percentage than the rest of the Army. Why? Researchers found they lasted longer in the field. Second, we were so busy we did not have time rest, rebuild and get back in shape. I don't know how many times I deployed nursing injuries and lingering diseases from the previous deployment. You want some 'fun'? Try yomping with a full combat load in the Rhodope Mountains with viral pleuresy. We had the five-event PT test before the current one y'all use now. You want to see embarassing? Watch lard-assess do the inverted crawl.

Fourth, despite all of our detractors, the last MEN standing at the end of a "bad day" were those pogue-looking lard-asses with their hemarroids hanging around their knee caps. They could absorb more damage, end fights more quickly and still breath through their nose.

Most of the MACV-SOG vets I know were fat. Put them in field and you'd be grateful they had some lard to slow them down. Us skinny f*ckers would rag on them, but I discovered that a PT test didn't show me sh*t compared to what's in their hearts and minds. Besides, everyone came out of the field a LOT skinnier.

Y'all want to bust on the PT failures and Fatsos? You will be one of those people soon enough, and yet you'll still be able to do the mission when called upon. What do you do? Quit? Commit to getting in shape? Yeah, right.

Rant off.

----------------

Have a Nice Day

Last edited by Tracy; 2 March 2009 at 03:33.
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  #11  
Old 2 March 2009, 04:54
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Annnnd another thing:

1st Battalion, 5th Special Forces Group had a standing policy of a Battalion Run every Wednesday at 0630. That's when the whistle blew and the timing started. Six miles, in formation, route step, nine-minute mile pace. Through the Mata Mile and Gabriel Training Areas. Ankle-deep sand. Every. Stinking. Week. All Hands. No Exceptions.

Teams were 'strongly' encouraged to maintain the Battalion Standard. You'd better be off post or dead if you weren't in formation.

We yomped the Appalachian Trail, the Uwharries and Pisgah Forests until we knew the land better than our teams rooms. Rocky Mountain yomps were the icing on the freaking cake.

Oh, yeah, every team I was on had 'stakes' training: Yomp for 20 clicks, drop everything and run a training class in your MOS specialty; then go for another 20 click stroll and another class. Stop, eat, sleep and start over the next day. Why 'Stakes'? You were given a grid coordinate to move to. The spot was marked by a stake with a dog tag showing the grid coordinate. Sr. Leadership were sometimes waiting at the stake with a stopwatch and training aids to help the instructor in his class.

This all during Red/Down/Garrison Cycles.

PT back then usually meant Physical Therapy.

I started my career at 6'2", 135lbs. I retired at 6'1", 190lbs. Same waist size. I f*cking loved every painful moment.

Last edited by Tracy; 2 March 2009 at 05:00.
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  #12  
Old 2 March 2009, 09:35
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The Mata mile.... another mile ain't gonna mata!
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Old 2 March 2009, 14:05
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Point Or Order. Pistol Skills. One of the most perishable if martial skills. If serious pistol shooting is NOT taught in the Q, the young soldiers are better off for it. If a Team or Company has a seriously proficient pistolero then learning when they can get reinforcement and continuation training is better.
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  #14  
Old 2 March 2009, 14:22
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In the regular Army we PT'd five days a week and weapons qaulified once a year. We used to joke that the leadership wanted us to shoot a couple of magazines...and then run like hell.
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  #15  
Old 2 March 2009, 16:11
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Hey, I am saying, it is not good when a guy straight out of the Q course can not pass a pt test. I didn't say anything about guys who have been around a while and have been on the go for years on end. I know how it is, I have only spent a couple months a year at home in the last 6 yrs, but I still manage to do something for PT along with other guys in group. I don't know how it was in the 60s or 70s, I wasn't there, but today on teams there is always time for PT, even if we have to do it late in the evenings or at 0430.
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Old 2 March 2009, 16:24
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RetPara, Good reply. I know shooting is parishable skill. The guys in the Q course need more time on a flat range. We do have great pistol shooters in the companies, and some shoot competition, so they are used as the resident experts to help train those guys if and when we can get a range on post. Other wise we go to the civilian ranges.
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Old 2 March 2009, 16:41
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For those wondering, 180A is who he claims, user title adjusted as needed.

Welcome to SOCNET.
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  #18  
Old 2 March 2009, 17:04
180A 180A is offline
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Thanks Ace.

Hey guys here is the current definition of UW. its an open source definition, but it is changing soon.

the FM (I will not provide which FM number) defines UW as a broad spectrum of military and paramilitary operations, predominantly conducted through, with, or by indigenous or
surrogate forces organized, trained, equipped, supported, and directed in
varying degrees by an external source. UW includes, but is not limited to,
guerrilla warfare (GW), sabotage, subversion, intelligence activities, and
unconventional assisted recovery (UAR).
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  #19  
Old 2 March 2009, 20:42
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Originally Posted by 180A View Post
Thdefines UW as a broad spectrum of military and paramilitary operations, predominantly conducted through, with, or by indigenous or surrogate forces organized, trained, equipped, supported, and directed in varying degrees by an external source. UW includes, but is not limited to, guerrilla warfare (GW), sabotage, subversion, intelligence activities, and unconventional assisted recovery (UAR).
If I was in charge of the Q course (which will never happen!) and had one student who was a PT stud but didn't show an aptitude for the above... and another who showed promise that he might be very good at the above but who struggles with the APFT...

I'm dumping the PT stud.

Just a thought.
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  #20  
Old 2 March 2009, 20:56
180A 180A is offline
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Greenhat,

You are right and you can't fix stupid. The only problem I have is guys not learning this or not wanting to learn it because all they want to do is DA. Fortunately for my team, all the guys are more than willing to learn. Its a great team.
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