1911 discussion

[edd1e22]

Originally Posted by The Fat Guy

Dan Wesson makes a good Pistol and most buyers are very happy with them. My point is that too many people complain, especially about Kimbers, when they have never even owned one. This is why I predicate my critiques with my level of experience with that equipment. Most critics across the Internet just state that you should buy what they bought to sooth their own souls, not after 5k rounds of experience. Most folks here have that experience or some semblance there of.

Someone always knew a guys whose brother had a friend that read about a... See my point.

So I've owned quite a few 1911's including Kimber's (Pro CDP II, USMC Det 1, Pro Series I), a few Springfield's, Les baers and many other notable ones. I've found the best Kimber's were the series I and those built in oregon. Those were the Kimber's that the company built their reputation on. They sell for a premium but in opinion, well worth paying due to the fact those are essentially, custom guns.

Same holds true for the older Les baer TRS guns. The newer ones just kinda lost the quality control the older ones had due probably to skyrocketing demand and mass production to meet that demand. Like the Kimber's, look for an older stock gun and if you're lucky, you might pay less than the current MSRP for a used gun that is built much better than the newer ones.

[karlm]

Originally Posted by DevilDawg

Thanks for the input Gents.

Gavin the STI appeals as it is a smaller batch and local product. Few QC issues to be found with my brief searches. The Guardian there in the 2011 lineup is a good looking option.

TFG, thanks and I hadn't read any complaints on the DW, but with the parent company it shouldn't be too much a surprise. I will keep an eye out on the Kimber thru my local store.

This is my personal experience with the Dan Wesson Guardian. Bought new, gun constantly jammed. Called DW they had me send it back for repair. I get the gun back and looks like someone let their 10 year old go at with a dremel and it still would not eject a round. After trading emails with their gunsmith for a week seeking a resolution, he just stops responding. Call them and get in a heated exchange, with them blaming the oil I am using as the cause. I finally have had enough and send an email to the President of CZ seeking a resolution. They send me a return label and the gun goes back for a second time. 2 weeks later I receive a new gun, cool issue resolved, or so I thought. Take the new gun to the range and it jams constantly. Not a big fan of DW.

[The Fat Guy]

Originally Posted by edd1e22

So I've owned quite a few 1911's including Kimber's (Pro CDP II, USMC Det 1, Pro Series I), a few Springfield's, Les baers and many other notable ones. I've found the best Kimber's were the series I and those built in oregon. Those were the Kimber's that the company built their reputation on. They sell for a premium but in opinion, well worth paying due to the fact those are essentially, custom guns.

Same holds true for the older Les baer TRS guns. The newer ones just kinda lost the quality control the older ones had due probably to skyrocketing demand and mass production to meet that demand. Like the Kimber's, look for an older stock gun and if you're lucky, you might pay less than the current MSRP for a used gun that is built much better than the newer ones.

The Clackamas guns are highly sought after, mostly because the Series I guns have no FPS as well as the quality that initially gave Kimber their fame. They still make series I guns, for example, the Super Carry line is a series I gun (no FPS).

Originally Posted by karlm

This is my personal experience with the Dan Wesson Guardian. Bought new, gun constantly jammed. Called DW they had me send it back for repair. I get the gun back and looks like someone let their 10 year old go at with a dremel and it still would not eject a round. After trading emails with their gunsmith for a week seeking a resolution, he just stops responding. Call them and get in a heated exchange, with them blaming the oil I am using as the cause. I finally have had enough and send an email to the President of CZ seeking a resolution. They send me a return label and the gun goes back for a second time. 2 weeks later I receive a new gun, cool issue resolved, or so I thought. Take the new gun to the range and it jams constantly. Not a big fan of DW.

As I said, I never owned one and the issues I mentioned have been very recent. Your review is the most valuable as it includes both QC and CS issues from a first person perspective.

[dogman]

The high volume of anecdotal stories about the recent quality of Kimber's has stopped me from considering one in the last 10+ years, but I have a Kimber Royal Carry (the first custom shop gun they built after the move) and it has been a fantastic and reliable 1911 - as good as any of my individual pistolsmith built 1911s.

I like the CCO configuration - it is well balanced and as well as my main ccw, it has been ran through pistol and carbine courses.

My only gripe is aesthetic - the frame bluing looks purple.

[edd1e22]

Originally Posted by The Fat Guy

The Clackamas guns are highly sought after, mostly because the Series I guns have no FPS as well as the quality that initially gave Kimber their fame. They still make series I guns, for example, the Super vary line is a series I gun (no FPS).

I guess everyone figured it out. It's been a while since i've owned a kimber but the older ones I owned ran flawlessly. Back then, I was shooting about 800-1200 rounds every weekend.

[Xenonburnout]

Gents,
First, I love this site and this thread. Info here is far better than reading the reviews for any weapon on any other site and for that I thank you.
Secondly, I am looking for a 1911 as as sort of collectors item and a home protection if needed. Reading thru this thread has helped me narrow down my choices to either the Ed Brown, Coltor an STI. I have been fortunate to be able to afford the higher end and am reaching out for more advice from you gents with the expertise to guide in a well thought out decision. I was leaning toward the .45 cal but a friend insists the 10mm is a better round ballistically. I am a novice who owns barrel guns only. I am left handed shooter. I really like the look and detail of the Ed Browns.
Any advice is greatly appreciated in advance.
Xenon

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by xenonburnout

I was leaning toward the .45 cal but a friend insists the 10mm is a better round ballistically.

Two different worlds here....

I am a big fan of the 10 MM, but if you go that route, don't do a 1911 frame. The 1911 frame was designed for and around the 45, which is a slow-moving, heavy, hard-fitting round. The 10 MM develops a lot more cartridge pressure and the 1911s that are chambered are retrofits by design. All of them. Even the notable Delta Elite had issues with the frames cracking...

Go check out the 10 MM thread for more info.

Personally, I have two 1911 45s. I have a Les Baer (1999ish) that I used to compete with that has over 38,000 rounds through it....and I still love the gun. I also have a Wilson XTac compact in 45 which is a safe queen, but everyone that shoots it falls in love with the trigger. It's a handsome gun, too.

[GPC]

Originally Posted by xenonburnout

Gents,
First, I love this site and this thread. Info here is far better than reading the reviews for any weapon on any other site and for that I thank you.
Secondly, I am looking for a 1911 as as sort of collectors item and a home protection if needed. Reading thru this thread has helped me narrow down my choices to either the Ed Brown, Coltor an STI. I have been fortunate to be able to afford the higher end and am reaching out for more advice from you gents with the expertise to guide in a well thought out decision. I was leaning toward the .45 cal but a friend insists the 10mm is a better round ballistically. I am a novice who owns barrel guns only. I am left handed shooter. I really like the look and detail of the Ed Browns.
Any advice is greatly appreciated in advance.
Xenon

Since you have the money I would recommend getting the one you want. Order it with the parts you want such as flat or arched MSH. GI or extended safety etc.
I have been shooting 1911s for 40 years now and they are great weapons but can be a harsh mistress. They really need to be broke in and not all brands are equal. I have seen high end 1911s choke and Norinco 1911s keep up with Colts etc. The key is breaking them in and just shooting them.
Buy good mags and try as many brands of ammo you can get. I do recommend the GI style recoil system. Use a Wilson combat flat wire kit. I run one in all my 1911s.

For 10mm 1911s, I own a Colt Delta Elite re-issue I did a review on it in this thread. If you want to shoot the real hot 10mm you will need a ramped barrel and fully supported chamber. Some brands of 10mm (Underwood) put a warning on the box not to shoot in Delta Elites etc. Unlike .45 recoil springs will need to be changed out more. I keep an accurate round count on my Delta for that reason.

Good luck on your quest.
FYI Wilson Combat offers financing.

[Xenonburnout]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Two different worlds here....

I am a big fan of the 10 MM, but if you go that route, don't do a 1911 frame. The 1911 frame was designed for and around the 45, which is a slow-moving, heavy, hard-fitting round. The 10 MM develops a lot more cartridge pressure and the 1911s that are chambered are retrofits by design. All of them. Even the notable Delta Elite had issues with the frames cracking...

Go check out the 10 MM thread for more info.

Personally, I have two 1911 45s. I have a Les Baer (1999ish) that I used to compete with that has over 38,000 rounds through it....and I still love the gun. I also have a Wilson XTac compact in 45 which is a safe queen, but everyone that shoots it falls in love with the trigger. It's a handsome gun, too.

Thanks DH. Good info/advice on the 10mm and other .45 options in the 1911 frame. Greatly appreciated

[Xenonburnout]

Originally Posted by GPC

Since you have the money I would recommend getting the one you want. Order it with the parts you want such as flat or arched MSH. GI or extended safety etc.
I have been shooting 1911s for 40 years now and they are great weapons but can be a harsh mistress. They really need to be broke in and not all brands are equal. I have seen high end 1911s choke and Norinco 1911s keep up with Colts etc. The key is breaking them in and just shooting them.
Buy good mags and try as many brands of ammo you can get. I do recommend the GI style recoil system. Use a Wilson combat flat wire kit. I run one in all my 1911s.

For 10mm 1911s, I own a Colt Delta Elite re-issue I did a review on it in this thread. If you want to shoot the real hot 10mm you will need a ramped barrel and fully supported chamber. Some brands of 10mm (Underwood) put a warning on the box not to shoot in Delta Elites etc. Unlike .45 recoil springs will need to be changed out more. I keep an accurate round count on my Delta for that reason.

Good luck on your quest.
FYI Wilson Combat offers financing.

Thank you GPC as well. Good info as well. Again greatly appreciated

[karlm]

Originally Posted by xenonburnout

Gents,
First, I love this site and this thread. Info here is far better than reading the reviews for any weapon on any other site and for that I thank you.
Secondly, I am looking for a 1911 as as sort of collectors item and a home protection if needed. Reading thru this thread has helped me narrow down my choices to either the Ed Brown, Coltor an STI. I have been fortunate to be able to afford the higher end and am reaching out for more advice from you gents with the expertise to guide in a well thought out decision. I was leaning toward the .45 cal but a friend insists the 10mm is a better round ballistically. I am a novice who owns barrel guns only. I am left handed shooter. I really like the look and detail of the Ed Browns.
Any advice is greatly appreciated in advance.
Xenon

I am by no means a 1911 expert, but I know what I like. That said I have a couple WC's and a couple EB's. All will shoot any ammo I put through them, they aren't finicky about mag's, have used Checkmates, WC 47D, WC ETM, SA Metalform.............. The WC's feel smoother to me, but the EB's are still very nice guns. WC has at this point made me question the value to cost. I recently ordered an EB executive carry in 9mm, I looked at WC, but I just didn't feel that their offering was 1K better than the EB. Either way I have a guy that I deal with, from some 1911 forums that gets me good pricing, let me know if you want his info

[Xenonburnout]

Thanks karlm,
Please PM me the info so as not to derail. As I said earlier I am a complete novice to the mag fed pistols and I am drawn to the 1911 platform out of nostalgia more than tactical. But I am looking for the highest level of QC and attention to detail in its function and am learning from the best here on SOCnet. Thanks again
Xenon

[karlm]

Originally Posted by xenonburnout

Thanks karlm,
Please PM me the info so as not to derail. As I said earlier I am a complete novice to the mag fed pistols and I am drawn to the 1911 platform out of nostalgia more than tactical. But I am looking for the highest level of QC and attention to detail in its function and am learning from the best here on SOCnet. Thanks again
Xenon

PM inbound, you can't go wrong with WC, but it comes at a premium, and their customer service is second to none.

[DevilDawg]

All,

Thanks for the detailed responses and have decided to go with the STI Trojan found about $200 below MSRP at my LGS. They didn't make the Guardian in a 1911 anymore unless I wanted one with Crimson Trace grip for a nominal additional fee. The Trojan seems to have very good reviews and is a quality introduction for my son into the 1911 experience.

Now off to get some Colgate for it.

[Dark Helmet]

Keep in mind that you are going to get a lot of varying opinions in here mostly from some pretty experienced guys. Just like the Ford versus Chevy argument; sometimes there is no "right" outcome....just varying opinions.

[hawkdrver]

Originally Posted by DevilDawg

Now off to get some Colgate for it.

247 cycles exactly

[8654maine]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Keep in mind that you are going to get a lot of varying opinions in here mostly from some pretty experienced guys. Just like the Ford versus Chevy argument; sometimes there is no "right" outcome....just varying opinions.

Blondes, brunettes, etc...

[DevilDawg]

Originally Posted by hawkdrver

247 cycles exactly

Captain Ramius: Re-verify our range to target... one ping only.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: Captain, I - I - I just...
Captain Ramius: Give me a ping, Vasili. One ping only, please.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: Aye, Captain.

[Chimo]

Originally Posted by 8654maine

Blondes, brunettes, etc...

That's not even a question........BOTH!

[Gray Rhyno]

Originally Posted by 8654maine

Blondes, brunettes, etc...

Cough cough redheads...