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  #201  
Old 22 August 2016, 14:13
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I disagree the games are to identify the very best athlete in the world at a given event.
What?


The Olympics, from the initial forming of the IOC in 1894, were to be purely amateurs and that held true until the early 80s.

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Originally Posted by Avery Brundage, IOC President 1952-1972
"We can only rely on the support of those who believe in the principles of fair play and sportsmanship embodied in the amateur code in our efforts to prevent the Games from being used by individuals, organizations or nations for ulterior motives."
The decision to permit professional athletes into the olympics after Brundage's tenure was purely to feed TV revenue for the IOC. More people tuned in to watch professionals which drove advertising revenue and far higher fees for broadcasting. The Olympics, today, exist to enrich the IOC.

Last edited by Streck-Fu; 22 August 2016 at 14:19.
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  #202  
Old 22 August 2016, 14:20
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Originally Posted by Keganswar View Post
I disagree the games are to identify the very best athlete in the world at a given event. Paid or unpaid does not matter.

Negative, up until about 1988 the Olympics were about the amateur athletics which is why the Soviet block countries generally won the most medals as they did not have professional sports, their athletes were all in the military. This is why the 1980 US Hockey team win was so impressive, they were truly all amateurs. There is nothing exciting at all about watching the US Men's or Women's basketball team beat the second place team by 30pts.

I would love to see it go back to purely amateur sports. I'm probably alone in this but I would also like to see another rule change; when you win a gold in an event you are now never allowed to compete in that event again. Seeing MP win another gold medal in an event he won in the previous two or three Olympics is just not exciting.
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  #203  
Old 22 August 2016, 14:20
Keganswar Keganswar is offline
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Originally Posted by Streck-Fu View Post
What?




The decision to permit professional athletes into the olympics after Brundage's tenure was purely to feed TV revenue for the IOC. More people tuned in to watch professionals which drove advertising revenue and far higher fees for broadcasting. The Olympics, today, exist to enrich the IOC.
What's the difference between a pro gymnast who trains in a multimillion dollar facility and amateur gymnast that trains in a multimillion dollar facility. I don't see much at all IMO. The best will be the best regardless of what there day job is.
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  #204  
Old 22 August 2016, 14:24
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Originally Posted by Keganswar View Post
What's the difference between a pro gymnast who trains in a multimillion dollar facility and amateur gymnast that trains in a multimillion dollar facility. I don't see much at all IMO. The best will be the best regardless of what there day job is.
You are totally missing it.
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  #205  
Old 22 August 2016, 14:24
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Originally Posted by Keganswar View Post
What's the difference between a pro gymnast who trains in a multimillion dollar facility and amateur gymnast that trains in a multimillion dollar facility. I don't see much at all IMO. The best will be the best regardless of what there day job is.
There's no such animal as a professional gymnast because the half-life of gymnasts at the elite level is so short.
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  #206  
Old 22 August 2016, 14:27
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Originally Posted by Joker View Post
I would love to see it go back to purely amateur sports. I'm probably alone in this but I would also like to see another rule change; when you win a gold in an event you are now never allowed to compete in that event again. Seeing MP win another gold medal in an event he won in the previous two or three Olympics is just not exciting.
Agree, which makes the closing statement, "I call upon the youth of the world to assemble four years from now in [name of next host city] to celebrate the Games of the [subsequent ordinal number of Summer Olympics] Olympiad/[subsequent ordinal number of Winter Olympics] Olympic Winter Games.," yargle bargle sound ridiculous when you have Olympians competing into their 30s and 40s.
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  #207  
Old 22 August 2016, 14:32
Keganswar Keganswar is offline
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Originally Posted by Streck-Fu View Post
You are totally missing it.
Ok bad example. I understand your point. I just don't share it. Maybe 40 years ago there was a difference. It does not exist anymore. So you win an Olymipc medal and then get millions of dollars in endorsements but you are somehow different then the pro athlete doing the same event. I personally don't see a relevant difference between the two.
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  #208  
Old 22 August 2016, 14:42
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So you win an Olymipc medal and then get millions of dollars in endorsements but you are somehow different then the pro athlete doing the same event.
That is still a rare event. Only the few athletes like Phelps get big endorsement deals. A few more will get shorter term endorsement deals but the majority of athletes there get no deal at all.

Name a Fencer with a multi-milllion dollar endorsement? Table Tennis bronze medalist that is a multi-millionaire? Water Polo player?

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Other than established multimillionaire stars such as U.S. swimmer Michael Phelps and Jamaican sprinter Usain Bolt, the Olympians have a brief window of opportunity — most likely a few weeks — to sign potentially lucrative endorsement deals once the Games are over.

A handful might profit handsomely, notably gymnast Simone Biles, who arrived in Rio de Janeiro with endorsements already in hand and then captured the nation’s attention by winning four gold medals and one bronze.

But most medalists won’t get rich from their efforts because corporations looking for celebrity endorsers know that the athletes — and their Olympic sports held only once every four years — don’t maintain the attention paid to traditional sports such as football and baseball, experts said.

“Very few of them” will attain significant wealth from the Rio Games, said Ben Sturner, chief executive of Leverage Agency, a sports and entertainment marketing firm. “The news media will not be covering you three or four weeks from now.”
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  #209  
Old 22 August 2016, 14:47
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My dumb opinion for whatever it is worth.

The Olympics is in my eyes, to be competed by the best athletes in the world for each event. Due to the money in professional sports, you have to permit professionals to compete to have truly the best. As long as it is a level playing field and all professionals are permitted then no harm no foul.

For decades under the amateur rules, the U.S. along with many western countries were the only ones sending amateurs. Look at the seventies and early eighties, how many of the countries athletes were also in the military, that was just the way to pay them. I have a individual I work with who was a Russian Ice Skater, and then a Russian Ice Skating coach. He medaled as a skater and the skater he coached medaled, both were in the military. He laughs now about being in the military and says it was just the way to get paid for what he did.

Was the money the same as our professional athletes, or those across the globe make, no, but it was still pay for play and that makes you a Pro.

We can also take this into where do you train. I have somewhat of an issue, when you see that Mr. or Ms. Athlete, has been a student at, pick the prominent U.S. College, or simply lives in the U.S., but competes for some other country. We are in essence training the other countries athletes. You should have some type of residency requirements, although this would be unbelievably difficult to police. As the rules now only require citizenship, countries just make you a citizen, and poof you can compete for them.
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  #210  
Old 22 August 2016, 15:38
Keganswar Keganswar is offline
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Originally Posted by Streck-Fu View Post
That is still a rare event. Only the few athletes like Phelps get big endorsement deals. A few more will get shorter term endorsement deals but the majority of athletes there get no deal at all.

Name a Fencer with a multi-milllion dollar endorsement? Table Tennis bronze medalist that is a multi-millionaire? Water Polo player?

LINK
The only lesson there is don't expect to make money or get laid playing table tennis.
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  #211  
Old 22 August 2016, 15:41
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^Forrest Gump would disagree.
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  #212  
Old 22 August 2016, 15:44
Keganswar Keganswar is offline
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Lol nice
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  #213  
Old 22 August 2016, 19:12
Grateful Civilian Grateful Civilian is offline
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Originally Posted by Batdog View Post
We can also take this into where do you train. I have somewhat of an issue, when you see that Mr. or Ms. Athlete, has been a student at, pick the prominent U.S. College, or simply lives in the U.S., but competes for some other country. We are in essence training the other countries athletes. You should have some type of residency requirements, although this would be unbelievably difficult to police. As the rules now only require citizenship, countries just make you a citizen, and poof you can compete for them.
Agreed and then there's the flip side: US citizens who have dual citizenship with another country and go on to compete for that country when they can't/don't make the US Team. You didn't make the US Team? Too bad - train harder. You shouldn't get to cherrypick citizenship.
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  #214  
Old 22 August 2016, 19:51
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Agreed and then there's the flip side: US citizens who have dual citizenship with another country and go on to compete for that country when they can't/don't make the US Team. You didn't make the US Team? Too bad - train harder. You shouldn't get to cherrypick citizenship.
Need to go back to no dual citizenship, either you're an American or you aren't.
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  #215  
Old 22 August 2016, 19:58
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Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
Need to go back to no dual citizenship, either you're an American or you aren't.
Bingo! That's the truth for a lot of circumstances besides just the Olympics.
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  #216  
Old 22 August 2016, 20:12
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I never understood how someone could have dual citizenship in general. Many other countries, like Singapore, require you can only be that nation's citizen.
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  #217  
Old 22 August 2016, 22:50
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Originally Posted by Justaclerk View Post
There's no such animal as a professional gymnast because the half-life of gymnasts at the elite level is so short.
In theory, that is true. However, 4 of the "Final Five"(Madison Kocian being the exception, she has committed to attending UCLA) have turned "professional". In doing so they have given up their NCAA eligibility, and allowing them to accept any monetary awards that accompany medals won in competition.

A lot of the top US female gymnasts turn pro because there is money to be made and they want to strike while the iron is hot, so to speak.
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  #218  
Old 23 August 2016, 05:25
Hostile0311 Hostile0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
I never understood how someone could have dual citizenship in general. Many other countries, like Singapore, require you can only be that nation's citizen.
Slightly off topic, but I am now a dual citizen. I obviously an am American first. However, my permanent home is in the country I now reside (Malta). My wife is not a US citizen but my 4 kids are dual like me. In my particular case, it was in my best interest to get the Maltese citizenship because it makes life easier. When I was just a permanent resident with "freedom of movement", it was nearly impossible to get any sort of cable, phone, utility contract or a decent loan from a bank due to being an "alien". It was discrimination plain and simple. I got the citizenship and those barriers disappeared. I know, it was my choice. But I pay taxes and social security in both countries, and had to be married for 5 years in order to qualify for the Maltese citizenship. So in a way, I feel like I deserve the latter even if its just for the above stated reasons as well as putting up with a Maltese wife.
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  #219  
Old 23 August 2016, 08:31
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It should be amateurs only. It's a money greed spectacle of unwatchable dreck now, ruined by television...

At this point they should just scrap the games. All they are are a means for host cites to boost tourism and revenue.
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  #220  
Old 23 August 2016, 08:38
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Originally Posted by KidA View Post
It should be amateurs only. It's a money greed spectacle of unwatchable dreck now, ruined by television...

At this point they should just scrap the games. All they are are a means for host cites to boost tourism and revenue.
Agree, but the money does not go to the athletes, but to the pompous officialdom of the IOC.
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