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  #21  
Old 12 October 2018, 06:38
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Originally Posted by meatpaws View Post
I would jump at the chance to train with them. No doubt it would be extremely challenging and I would learn a lot. Most of it would not cross-over to my day to day job but it would help add a few ideas and techniques to my toolbox. There's assholes here just like there's assholes there, and because of the tacticool trend that was referenced in another post, people have access to more training than ever which in the wrong hands could pose more of a threat than we are used to dealing with.

ROE difference? Absolutely, unless you're dealing with an active shooter or suicide bomber like was stated above. At the end of the day if the agency is willing to spend money to send my ass somewhere for good training, I won't complain!
Meh......

If it were 1998, Iíd think the Israelis would be on the bleeding edge, just like if it were 1988 the South Africans were as well due to combat operations.

But itís 2018.

Iíve met a few western SMU type peeps. I was and remain seriously impressed.

I used to work with Israelis in the civilian/commercial sector. I thought I had an abrasive, arrogant, and argumentative personality. :)

The only Israelis Iíd like to meet would be from their Talpiot Program, kind of like high speed military innovation nerds.

That and studying their tight-knit innovation/entrepreneurship ecosystem where prior military service networks play a big role.

Like how Unit 8200 alumni have their own innovation entrepreneurship incubator.

But for learning about pipehitting and esoteric stuff, Iíd personally prefer spending time with a couple greybeards with a lot of relevancy.

Just my 0.02c
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  #22  
Old 12 October 2018, 08:35
meatpaws meatpaws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
Meh......

If it were 1998, Iíd think the Israelis would be on the bleeding edge, just like if it were 1988 the South Africans were as well due to combat operations.

But itís 2018.

Iíve met a few western SMU type peeps. I was and remain seriously impressed.

I used to work with Israelis in the civilian/commercial sector. I thought I had an abrasive, arrogant, and argumentative personality. :)

The only Israelis Iíd like to meet would be from their Talpiot Program, kind of like high speed military innovation nerds.

That and studying their tight-knit innovation/entrepreneurship ecosystem where prior military service networks play a big role.

Like how Unit 8200 alumni have their own innovation entrepreneurship incubator.

But for learning about pipehitting and esoteric stuff, Iíd personally prefer spending time with a couple greybeards with a lot of relevancy.

Just my 0.02c
I'll train with any credible and experienced folks, I try not to discriminate!
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  #23  
Old 12 October 2018, 12:54
poison poison is offline
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Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
Meh......

If it were 1998, Iíd think the Israelis would be on the bleeding edge


I used to work with Israelis in the civilian/commercial sector. I thought I had an abrasive, arrogant, and argumentative personality. :)

The only Israelis Iíd like to meet would be from their Talpiot Program, kind of like high speed military innovation nerds.
You worked with a few Israelis in a civilian capacity, but know you wouldn't want to train with anyone but Talpiot?

Um, ok. No one said they are #thebestest at anything. They merely have more experience than their american peers with regards to very focused issues relating to terrorism, like suicide bombers and active shooters. As meatpaws said, he doesn't even know if his dept has a suicide bomber protocol. Why should they, it's nowhere near the top of the 'things I might need to do today, or in ten years' list? But he's curious about that protocol, so it might be advantageous to pick the brains of people who have been dealing with that issue longer than anyone. Just for perspective, I was at the scene of a bus bombing in Israel an hour after it happened, witnessed multiple satchel bombs being contained and detonated in public, and my unit suffered one of the first and worst dual suicide bombing attacks of the 90's, which happened in a civilian setting. It's just way more frequent there, and LE gets more real life practice.

Here's an inaccurate, partial list only documenting the successful attacks, not partially successful, or those prevented at the bombing scene or before (which would make the list exponentially longer).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks
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  #24  
Old 12 October 2018, 14:42
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Originally Posted by meatpaws View Post
I'll train with any credible and experienced folks, I try not to discriminate!
Time and resources are always limited. So I always discriminate, in the differentiation/distinction use of the verb discriminate.

Not the bad one.
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  #25  
Old 12 October 2018, 15:18
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Originally Posted by poison View Post
You worked with a few Israelis in a civilian capacity, but know you wouldn't want to train with anyone but Talpiot?

Um, ok. No one said they are #thebestest at anything. They merely have more experience than their american peers with regards to very focused issues relating to terrorism, like suicide bombers and active shooters. As meatpaws said, he doesn't even know if his dept has a suicide bomber protocol. Why should they, it's nowhere near the top of the 'things I might need to do today, or in ten years' list? But he's curious about that protocol, so it might be advantageous to pick the brains of people who have been dealing with that issue longer than anyone. Just for perspective, I was at the scene of a bus bombing in Israel an hour after it happened, witnessed multiple satchel bombs being contained and detonated in public, and my unit suffered one of the first and worst dual suicide bombing attacks of the 90's, which happened in a civilian setting. It's just way more frequent there, and LE gets more real life practice.

Here's an inaccurate, partial list only documenting the successful attacks, not partially successful, or those prevented at the bombing scene or before (which would make the list exponentially longer).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks
Hey look Poison, I get your personal emotional investment in all this and Iím sincerely sorry your unit suffered casualties from enemy activity.

But nothing in your post disputes what is easy for me to post with ďtime and spaceĒ and clinical distance.

I think the list you provided supports my post more than yours.

We will never know for sure whatís NOT included on the list, but Iíd respectfully disagree and bet the house that a comprehensively compiled list would show US led coalition experience in this domain over the last 17 years has risen from limited to exponential.

Which is why I wrote what I did.

I didnít work with a few Israelis. It was a few hundred. Working for, with, and over. All males and all vets of course. Enough to provide cultural context beyond just anecdotal.

That culture seems to include active defence against anyone who doesnít agree.

I simply communicated a personal desire to engage and understand the IDF in a different domain and a preference for certain coalition personnel in this domain.

I didnít realise that would be a problem.

And I didnít even ask the cynical but very real question of how/why the article even reached publication.
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  #26  
Old 12 October 2018, 15:32
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Massgrunt Massgrunt is offline
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I'm sure there's value to it and exposure to how other competent professionals do things is healthy.
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  #27  
Old 12 October 2018, 18:41
poison poison is offline
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Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
Hey look Poison, I get your personal emotional investment in all this and Iím sincerely sorry your unit suffered casualties from enemy activity.

But nothing in your post disputes what is easy for me to post with ďtime and spaceĒ and clinical distance.

I think the list you provided supports my post more than yours.

We will never know for sure whatís NOT included on the list, but Iíd respectfully disagree and bet the house that a comprehensively compiled list would show US led coalition experience in this domain over the last 17 years has risen from limited to exponential.

Which is why I wrote what I did.

I didnít work with a few Israelis. It was a few hundred. Working for, with, and over. All males and all vets of course. Enough to provide cultural context beyond just anecdotal.

That culture seems to include active defence against anyone who doesnít agree.

I simply communicated a personal desire to engage and understand the IDF in a different domain and a preference for certain coalition personnel in this domain.

I didnít realise that would be a problem.

And I didnít even ask the cynical but very real question of how/why the article even reached publication.
Well, I do know what is not included in that list, and it's many, many times what that list shows.

We're discussing an article that's about US Swat training with Israeli Swat in specific tactics in a civilian setting, and you somehow want to argue that the totality of the US-led coalition experience involving multiple miliaries, fighting wars in multiple countries/war zones across the globe, is somehow relevant in the context of the article? You're arguing apples and pumpkins. It's cool you worked with some Israelis in a civilian capacity, but that gives 0 insight into what Yamam does, or whether they have any worthwhile ideas.

As for 'if it were 1998', a majority of their civilian-directed terror was from 2000-2007, with some serious spates of activity between then and now. They're way more effective now in anti-terror activity, specifically in the civilian realm, than they were in 1998.

I realize there are plenty of Israeli posers out there, and it taints the perception, hence some of the responses here, I totally get that, and give my humble apology for them here (lol to those abrasive or poser types). Like most places, if they're spouting off about what they did, they probably didn't. I've met plenty of those both here and there. Yamam is not that.
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  #28  
Old 20 November 2018, 03:25
Sparks Sparks is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
I didn't know America had such a shortage of domestic tactical units to train with that we have to drop coin on foreigners.
Probably just another excuse to send more shekels to Eretz Yisroel, we all know our greatest ally needs more money from us...
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  #29  
Old 20 November 2018, 05:58
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Hoepoe Hoepoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
Probably just another excuse to send more shekels to Eretz Yisroel, we all know our greatest ally needs more money from us...
Actually G2G training is usually pro-bono...
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  #30  
Old 20 November 2018, 11:24
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bobofthedesert bobofthedesert is offline
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Probably just another excuse to send more shekels to Eretz Yisroel, we all know our greatest ally needs more money from us...
Slight thread derail, but don't send any money to that "International Fellowship of Christians and Jews" that is constantly soliciting on TV.....I found the commercials so irritating over time that I trotted out my Google-fu......turns out the good Rabbi lives in Chicago, and one year paid himself $1.2 million in salary from all those donations....and paid his daughter $300K.
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  #31  
Old 21 November 2018, 10:42
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John Simpson John Simpson is offline
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Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
Slight thread derail, but don't send any money to that "International Fellowship of Christians and Jews" that is constantly soliciting on TV.....I found the commercials so irritating over time that I trotted out my Google-fu......turns out the good Rabbi lives in Chicago, and one year paid himself $1.2 million in salary from all those donations....and paid his daughter $300K.

A SOCNET thread getting derailed? I never heard of such a thing! And a charity with offices in Chicago, IL and the founder lives in the same city? String him up, I say!
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