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  #21  
Old 4 January 2016, 17:58
Janitor Janitor is offline
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Originally Posted by KidA View Post
I concur with your post, but mostly with this.

Also interesting that the very first jury vote was 7 to 4 "not guilty"
Fucking spoiler. I'm only on episode 7.
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  #22  
Old 4 January 2016, 18:07
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Wonder how much jury tampering went on? Town seemed pretty incestuous with everyone up in each other's bidness. Dude would have better off asking for a bench trial.
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  #23  
Old 4 January 2016, 18:13
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Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
Fucking spoiler. I'm only on episode 7.
Ha-ha, is it possible to spoil true life?
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  #24  
Old 4 January 2016, 18:32
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Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
I'll be the wet blanket here: we're seeing only the producer's/editor's cherry picking of footage and evidence. The show is carefully edited to prompt viewers to reach a particular conclusion (that Avery is not guilty) and produce outrage. The jury viewed nearly 1,000 pieces of physical evidence and heard the entire testimony from all the witnesses. There may be a lot more we're not hearing (e.g. there was evidence that Avery talked about torture chambers in prison and said he knew how to destroy bodies).

That said, I see reasonable doubt all over this case.
Did they ever find such chambers on his property? Or even in his trailer?

I agree the producers set you up to believe this dude is innocent. With that being said, they fucked him royally for almost 2 decades, and just before he's about to make them look fucking stupid, he gets popped for murder.
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  #25  
Old 4 January 2016, 18:32
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Spoiler link: AV Club

Len Kachinsky can still suck a dick. He's a disgrace to the profession.
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  #26  
Old 4 January 2016, 18:48
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Originally Posted by Mr.Smith View Post
Did they ever find such chambers on his property? Or even in his trailer?

I agree the producers set you up to believe this dude is innocent. With that being said, they fucked him royally for almost 2 decades, and just before he's about to make them look fucking stupid, he gets popped for murder.
That's the evidence a former DA cited when claiming the series is not telling the whole story. Thought it was pretty weak myself.

I'm more impressed by the problems with physical evidence.
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  #27  
Old 4 January 2016, 18:55
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Edited to add- possible spoiler alert.....


I watched it, like said above, every documentary is one sided, this one was way too one sided. I read up on the case a little, it sounds like a good example of mismanagement by the Prosecutor and such, but there are at least several really damming pieces of evidence against Avery that the Doc conveniently didn't mention. I'm not well versed enough in legal matters to say one way or the other on what should or, should have, happened, like a retrial or mistrial or whatever other option that I don't know shit about. But im not really convinced that Avery is innocent, even if the police/DA did some shady shit to make sure he was found guilty.
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  #28  
Old 4 January 2016, 20:29
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I don't think anyone, including the producers, believes Avery isn't culpable in some way, shape or form...it's the manner in which the media and prosecution convicted him that is outrageous.

Call me crazy but I don't subscribe to anyone getting shafted by the legal system. We have rights.
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  #29  
Old 4 January 2016, 20:40
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I agree that according to what I've seen in this documentary, some of those law folks in that county should be in jail.

I also can't but help think that the same brainless drones that used to wear Free Mumia t-shirts are now among those signing the Free Avery petitions. Regardless of the facts in either case, I just can't stand people who hop on to a bandwagon due to slick production and entertainment.
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  #30  
Old 4 January 2016, 20:53
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Either way, if he didn't do it and they just used the convenience of it and exploited it, or he did do it and they got their man. None of those assholes who put him away for 20 years, wrongfully, had anything come down on them. They are all sitting back collecting their pensions.
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  #31  
Old 4 January 2016, 21:32
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Spoiler:


For those without direct knowledge of phlebotomy, this explains what many saw as evidence tampering. How else do the producers thing the sample gets in there? http://youtu.be/yxQolqS42mE
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  #32  
Old 5 January 2016, 00:18
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Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
I don't think anyone, including the producers, believes Avery isn't culpable in some way, shape or form...it's the manner in which the media and prosecution convicted him that is outrageous.

Call me crazy but I don't subscribe to anyone getting shafted by the legal system. We have rights.
What are your thoughts then on the overturning of his first conviction?
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  #33  
Old 5 January 2016, 00:23
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Originally Posted by edd1e22 View Post
What are your thoughts then on the overturning of his first conviction?
I'm afraid I'm not following your question. My comment is made in reference to his second conviction.

If we are talking about the overturning of his first conviction, I'm not sure what you're asking there. Are you siding with Kocourek and company, who can't stomach publicly admitting that they knowingly sent a man to prison for 18 years? Because there isn't any doubt that those lying scumbags knew they were collaring the wrong man.
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  #34  
Old 5 January 2016, 00:39
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Your stated that you don't subscribe to anyone getting shafted because we have rights yet, he was clearly "shafted" on his first conviction. Just trying to understand how you reconcile those two.
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  #35  
Old 5 January 2016, 00:54
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Originally Posted by edd1e22 View Post
Your stated that you don't subscribe to anyone getting shafted because we have rights yet, he was clearly "shafted" on his first conviction. Just trying to understand how you reconcile those two.
Of course he was. What is your point?
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  #36  
Old 5 January 2016, 01:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
Call me crazy but I don't subscribe to anyone getting shafted by the legal system. We have rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
can't stomach publicly admitting that they knowingly sent a man to prison for 18 years? Because there isn't any doubt that those lying scumbags knew they were collaring the wrong man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edd1e22 View Post
Your stated that you don't subscribe to anyone getting shafted because we have rights yet, he was clearly "shafted" on his first conviction. Just trying to understand how you reconcile those two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
Of course he was. What is your point?
Unless you're being sarcastic in your first post you state that our legal system isn't rigged (hint: it is only wealthy people have rights as well as people who a DA doesn't think a jury will convict). But then you state that he did get shafted. I'm a little confused by your statement too.
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  #37  
Old 5 January 2016, 02:35
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"I don't subscribe to anyone getting shafted..."That's what I stated, which means that I disagree with someone getting shafted. "We have rights" is a statement that I made that should be crystal clear, correct?

If I had stated "I subscribe to him getting shafted" your points would make sense.

And since we are on a roll - and to KISS - I believe Avery WAS shafted by the system and his RIGHTS were clearly violated in the first trial. One can make a compelling argument, as his defense did, that they also were violated in the second trial.
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  #38  
Old 5 January 2016, 07:53
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We have rights? How old fashioned.
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  #39  
Old 5 January 2016, 09:07
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Holy shit, watched the first episode and I was floored the AG didn't bring up any charges given what they uncovered. It just goes to show you it's not about being guilty or innocent, but rather who you know among the political shit storm we call elected officials.
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  #40  
Old 5 January 2016, 09:24
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Just to clarify/add on to my post, I think what happened with this guys first conviction is a shame, and harsh punishments should have been handed out to all involved, and I believe some shady shit was done to make sure he was convicted of the second crime, and that shady stuff should be investigated and harsh penalties dealt to those involved again. People talk about 2 legal systems for the rich and the poor, it seems there is a third legal system for prosecutors, DA's, and law enforcement that is even more crooked.....I just also feel that this Avery dude isn't as good an example as say the West memphis 3, it looks like he probably did kill that women, that's not a defense of his rights being violated, that's a bar that should never be lowered, but Im not about to start protesting and petitioning for his release either.
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