Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > Law Enforcement

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19 September 2017, 12:20
AMP's Avatar
AMP AMP is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 275
Georgia Tech Campus Shooting

Question for LEO's out there. It seems that campus police departments do not carry tasers. I work at a midwest University and our police officers do not have tasers. I know of other local commuter campuses that they do not have tasers. Is it a cost thing, training? I am not judging, and I am not a LEO. It just seems from the observation of this video. A taser may have been an option if available. Thanks in advance for any responses. And be safe out there.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19 September 2017, 12:38
Agoge's Avatar
Agoge Agoge is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 6,197
That was a great case for the use of a taser. If a university PD doesn't have tasers...people need to push them to buy them. I am against an over reliance on tasers, but there are times where they are the perfect weapon of choice. They aren't that expensive and universities spend way more on paper than they would on tasers.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19 September 2017, 13:07
GackMan's Avatar
GackMan GackMan is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 7,161
I would bet it is because, in the court of public opinion, Tasers are medieval torture devices... so the campus police having them is bad.

On the other hand, using a taser against a person with a knife is a good way to get stabbed. If you have 5 officers there and plenty of lethal cover, go ahead and try to use the taser but that would be a case by case basis. Not an idea for a doctrine - "you must always try a taser before shooting someone with a knife" would be fucking stupid.
__________________
"Everything government touches turns to crap." - Ringo Starr
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19 September 2017, 13:38
AMP's Avatar
AMP AMP is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 275
Quote:
I would bet it is because, in the court of public opinion, Tasers are medieval torture devices... so the campus police having them is bad.
Hell on my campus they don't hand out speeding tickets. Don't want to get Susie or Johnnie upset and having their parents call the President or Provost to complain about the big bad campus police picking on them. And they do drive like knuckleheads. Sheesh.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19 September 2017, 13:41
Agoge's Avatar
Agoge Agoge is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 6,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMP View Post
Hell on my campus they don't hand out speeding tickets. Don't want to get Susie or Johnnie upset and having their parents call the President or Provost to complain about the big bad campus police picking on them. And they do drive like knuckleheads. Sheesh.
If that is truly the case, then they shouldn't have weapons at all and let them be "unarmed" guards. That would fix the entire problem. Give people guns...people are liable to get shot by them once-in-a-while.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19 September 2017, 15:43
Front_Sight_Bang's Avatar
Front_Sight_Bang Front_Sight_Bang is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,048
I can't speak for University Departments, however we had an incident arise at a local high school last year wherein a student was shot by school PD as he attempted to stab/slash other students. Good shoot start to finish, including judicious marksmanship. Questions followed about why they didn't just tase the kid, and predictable (albeit morbidly stupid) assumptions followed. Taser International themselves advise against the use of the Taser against the elderly or infirm, or against children whose central nervous systems may not yet be fully developed. Well, schools are full of.....say it with me.....kids. So here at least, school PD doesn't carry Tasers. Does that level of thinking apply to administration in college LE administrations? Who knows. Could also be a funding thing, or an image issue where they don't want to appear too aggressive. It would not surprise me in the slightest if in our nations safe spaces, er-uh college campuses, it was the issue of appearing too aggressive.
__________________
Shit aint funny....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19 September 2017, 20:55
Horned Toad's Avatar
Horned Toad Horned Toad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: usa
Posts: 1,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
That was a great case for the use of a taser.
Why do you think that?
__________________
75th RGR RGT
RS 03/92
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19 September 2017, 21:03
Agoge's Avatar
Agoge Agoge is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 6,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horned Toad View Post
Why do you think that?
From what I saw on the video, there was a barrier between the two of them for a great deal of the time. Also, the officer allowed the guy to get pretty close to him at times which if he did that, something tells me he didn't feel very threatened at that point. I also saw that the guy held the knife down by his side for a good bit of the time and alluded to the fact that he wanted to die. I never saw any serious advancement toward the officer. IMO, the video reveals plenty to show that it was a good situation for a taser to be deployed.

I wasn't there, but I think that from that information, a taser would have been a good instrument to use for that situation.

Last edited by Agoge; 19 September 2017 at 21:09.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 19 September 2017, 22:53
Front_Sight_Bang's Avatar
Front_Sight_Bang Front_Sight_Bang is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,048
In addition to Agoge's post, Taser deployment is also taught as a cover/contact type of approach. One guy on Taser, one remains lethal cover. In this situation there were (I believe) two officers present who were triangulated on him. I agree that if it were available it would have been a good option, although there is no requirement to meet lethal force with less than lethal force. In the end, sad though it may be, no one other than the student is responsible for his death and all the irrational social media crybabies can jump off a cliff.
__________________
Shit aint funny....
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19 September 2017, 23:42
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
Did...did I do that?
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Green Country, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,163
25 years ago when I was a college cop in SE Ohio, all we carried was the Nova XR5000. The trustees wouldn't let us carry guns. But they'd never patrol with us at 0300 for some reason...
__________________
This message is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20 September 2017, 10:31
Steamin Steamin is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Illinois -I/70
Posts: 334
I'll find out from our Chief today, but I believe they carry taser's as well here on Campus.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20 September 2017, 10:43
Whitebean54's Avatar
Whitebean54 Whitebean54 is offline
Social Claymore
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Airboat
Posts: 2,298
Another thing to consider..... Tasers are not flawless. They are called less-lethal for a reason.

Cases of excited delirium combined with taser use can still have lethal results.
__________________
"Somewhere, theres a skeleton, a book sack and a log with a fat girls signature " Jumpcut

" a world class ass-clown who is running this jack-assery version of laser tag" USMC_ANGLICO
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 20 September 2017, 10:59
KS11's Avatar
KS11 KS11 is offline
Reverse Apache Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Here and There
Posts: 2,387
When facing a Deadly Force threat (knife), using Less(than)-Lethal force is a good way to get yourself hurt.

The kid had a knife and advanced on police officers, refusing to heed multiple commands to drop the knife. He was killed. Oh well, sucks to be him.
__________________
A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Giving the enemy a boner is half the battle. --Jungle Recon
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20 September 2017, 11:00
DCH's Avatar
DCH DCH is offline
Callsign: Turkey Bacon
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SoCAL
Posts: 2,196
A few campuses in SoCal had them, but only supervisors- this was in the 90's..I haven't kept up on district cops..
__________________
No matter.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 20 September 2017, 11:18
10thvet's Avatar
10thvet 10thvet is online now
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Big Sky Country...
Posts: 2,992
FN303 LTL weapon system is a good weapon that allows 25-50ish meters of stand off distance. Taught this weapon in Astan. It's very reliable and will dent 3/4 inch plywood at 25 meters. The downside is that it operates on compressed air must be maintained routinely, meaning it cannot be just propped up on a corner and ignored until needed....like any other weapon



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_303
__________________
"Since it is so likely that children will meet cruel enemies, let them at least have heard of brave knights and heroic courage" CS Lewis

America...a country founded by geniuses but run by idiots

Never trust a politician that starts with " I have always supported American’s 2nd Amendment rights but… "

I will not submit to your will. I will not be intimidated.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2 October 2017, 10:40
chokeu2's Avatar
chokeu2 chokeu2 is offline
Voodoo guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,353
A friend of mine spent some time working for that PD in particular; and the lack of tasers was a PC thing. They gave off the perception that caused hurt feelings.
__________________
Latus iustus inferni ,Latus mallum coeli
Donum diaboli, Constatia angeli
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 5 October 2017, 10:43
Believeraz's Avatar
Believeraz Believeraz is offline
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tilting at Windmills
Posts: 2,457
40MM less lethal impact munitions are a great tool with good stand-off for similar situations, if we can plan a response as opposed to just happening upon it (Taser can be the better option there).

Since we switched to a newer technology LLIM round, my team has been 100% successful (4/4 over a year and a half, I believe) in immediately stopping people from doing things that otherwise would have gotten them shot.
__________________
_________________

"Butch up, prom queen"
-Wench
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10 October 2017, 09:51
dsumner dsumner is offline
Oppressor of the people
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Posts: 569
Taser use is going to vary from agency to Agency. As far as specific policy on when they can be used, the same applies. One thing that's been affecting their use is a recent court case out of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (Armstrong v. Pinehurst N.C.), where the use of a Taser could be considered excessive force, in certain circumstances, caused a lot of hand wringing around here. Several agencies severely restricted Taser use after the decision came down.

https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinion...d/151191.P.pdf

http://ncja.ncdoj.gov/Armstrong-v-Vi...Pinehurst.aspx
__________________
Nemo me impune lacessit
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 17:19.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET