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Old 17 October 2019, 08:24
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Google exec telling folks to warn guests that devices are recording them

I'm sharing this not because it's anything new, but it is interesting to hear a top exec talk about it. We've rapidly entered an era where privacy is the next big objective in terms of risk to individuals. Again, nothing new, but this highlights the topic in ways we've rarely seen before. Companies are going to start framing privacy concerns up front, instead of ignoring them. In some part, to desensitize folks, I suspect.

https://www.pulse.ng/bi/tech/google-...-their/z1e1d5n
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Old 17 October 2019, 10:35
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So based on the information in the article I looked up California laws and found-

California,

Under California law, it is a crime punishable by fine and/or imprisonment to record a confidential conversation without the consent of all parties, or without a notification of the recording to the parties via an audible beep at specific intervals. The California Supreme Court has defined a confidential conversation as one in which the parties have a reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or eavesdropping. In addition to criminal penalties, illegal recording can also give rise to civil damages.

Based on that if you are not in a 1 party consent state could these tech companies be sued for recording private conversations with out consent? Was this article potentially damage control?
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Old 17 October 2019, 10:37
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Here's a thought: Provide an interface to Nest devices with a checkbox that says "Disable ALL Audio Recording Capabilities".
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Old 17 October 2019, 12:08
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Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Here's a thought: Provide an interface to Nest devices with a checkbox that says "Disable ALL Audio Recording Capabilities".
I chose a simpler route: I have no use whatsoever for IoT stuff (why do I need an internet connected thermostat, anyway?) so I just don't buy any.
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Old 17 October 2019, 13:54
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As you sit reading this, and as I sit typing this... look around the room where you currently are... How many cameras are pointed at you right now? For me, three. Smart TV, laptop, I phone. All three of these devices have mics too, and are connected either by ethernet or wi fi to the outside world.

Just something to ponder in today's wonderful world.
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Old 17 October 2019, 14:04
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You can be recorded almost anywhere nowadays. Either live in a scif or just watch your conversations.
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Old 17 October 2019, 14:24
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I've seen people that are apprehensive about purchasing such products...then I point to their smartphone. I'm of the same mindset as 275RLTW, it's either all or none, and going the "none" route is nearly impossible.
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Old 17 October 2019, 14:53
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My Alexa gets plugged in when I want to hear some music, usually while cooking or cleaning. Other than that it sits on a shelf.
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Old 17 October 2019, 16:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
As you sit reading this, and as I sit typing this... look around the room where you currently are... How many cameras are pointed at you right now? For me, three. Smart TV, laptop, I phone. All three of these devices have mics too, and are connected either by ethernet or wi fi to the outside world.

Just something to ponder in today's wonderful world.


Just the phone in my case. I cover the camera and mic on the laptop, and do not own a TV with a camera. The phone, I can do little about, as I'm required to keep it on me. Nature of earning my paycheck this way.

But yeah...I'm continually surprised at how amazed the new kids in the SOC are when I demo RATs and such for them. These kids got degrees in cybersecurity without realizing just how easy it is for someone to spy on your camera and microphone, log your keystrokes, harvest your passwords, etc. And that's not even counting all the people we give explicit permission to spy on us...
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Old 17 October 2019, 16:43
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Just the phone in my case. I cover the camera and mic on the laptop, and do not own a TV with a camera. The phone, I can do little about, as I'm required to keep it on me. Nature of earning my paycheck this way.

But yeah...I'm continually surprised at how amazed the new kids in the SOC are when I demo RATs and such for them. These kids got degrees in cybersecurity without realizing just how easy it is for someone to spy on your camera and microphone, log your keystrokes, harvest your passwords, etc. And that's not even counting all the people we give explicit permission to spy on us...
years ago, my law school had two wireless networks. One with no security, and one which required some work to get on.

Naturally everyone used the one with no security.

I gave a demonstration for my cyber law class where i showed how easy it was to pull gmail, facebook, yahoo mail, etc cookies off the wifi and then open their accounts on my machine.

Naturally everyone was pretty much ignoring me, on their laptops, until I started opening peoples facebooks or reading their emails from the podium and suddenly every laptop closed and all eyes on me.

I ended up almost getting in serious trouble - but the professor from the Cyber law class stuck up for me.

They still use the open wireless network though.
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Old 18 October 2019, 08:24
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Cell phones are not on the same planet when it comes to what they’re collecting.
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Old 18 October 2019, 10:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keganswar View Post
So based on the information in the article I looked up California laws and found-

California,

Under California law, it is a crime punishable by fine and/or imprisonment to record a confidential conversation without the consent of all parties, or without a notification of the recording to the parties via an audible beep at specific intervals. The California Supreme Court has defined a confidential conversation as one in which the parties have a reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or eavesdropping. In addition to criminal penalties, illegal recording can also give rise to civil damages.

Based on that if you are not in a 1 party consent state could these tech companies be sued for recording private conversations with out consent? Was this article potentially damage control?
California takes that law seriously. Can't tell you the number of folks who wanted to become a federal qui tam whistleblower, who've secretly recorded conversations in that state. My comment is always: "I don't want it, I don't want to hear it, and I advise you to forget about using that recording."
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Old 18 October 2019, 11:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOFH View Post
I chose a simpler route: I have no use whatsoever for IoT stuff (why do I need an internet connected thermostat, anyway?) so I just don't buy any.
Winner winner chicken dinner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
As you sit reading this, and as I sit typing this... look around the room where you currently are... How many cameras are pointed at you right now?
None.

I don't have a smart phone. I don't have a smart TV. My computer does not have a webcam. My iPad is under my couch.

-Stan
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Old 18 October 2019, 16:29
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You can go into the Bios on your laptop and disable the camera and microphone if it is a concern. Unfortunately Smart devices are becoming the norm. Geez why do I need a Smart fridge?
Smartphone is another story. Small Faraday pocket may be useful for some folks.
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Old 18 October 2019, 16:32
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Next tech opportunity, AI/ML based whole person privacy application.
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Old 18 October 2019, 16:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
As you sit reading this, and as I sit typing this... look around the room where you currently are... How many cameras are pointed at you right now? For me, three. Smart TV, laptop, I phone. All three of these devices have mics too, and are connected either by ethernet or wi fi to the outside world.

Just something to ponder in today's wonderful world.
No cameras.
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Old 18 October 2019, 18:44
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
California takes that law seriously. Can't tell you the number of folks who wanted to become a federal qui tam whistleblower, who've secretly recorded conversations in that state. My comment is always: "I don't want it, I don't want to hear it, and I advise you to forget about using that recording."
Given the amount of loathsome crooked shit in that state, Hollywood etc, of course the powers that be want to ruthlessly squash any precedent for spying on THEM. S/F...Ken M
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Old 18 October 2019, 22:04
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If my smart TVs want to watch me dance naked in the house, or listen to me sing to "Copperhead Road", (also while naked), then go for it.

I'm waaay less concerned about that than teaching my kids to ignore adverts/pop-ups on their ipads. They've got the no-talking-to-strangers thing down well, but it's the internet-strangers that worries me.
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Old 20 October 2019, 09:56
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The much bigger ramifications to perpetual recording of your habits is going to be the evolution once we are all on 5G. Digital patterns of life don't just tell technology companies what you're doing. Tradecraft -period - is about to become a whole lot more challenging. Not having a camera on your shit's going to be the least of your concerns.
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Old 20 October 2019, 12:58
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Winner winner chicken dinner.



None.

I don't have a smart phone. I don't have a smart TV. My computer does not have a webcam. My iPad is under my couch.

-Stan
Jesus, step into 2002, would ya?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
You can go into the Bios on your laptop and disable the camera and microphone if it is a concern. Unfortunately Smart devices are becoming the norm. Geez why do I need a Smart fridge?
Smartphone is another story. Small Faraday pocket may be useful for some folks.
Faraday bags aren’t what they used to be. A recent study shows most don’t work. And a strong adversary can defeat them when specifically targeting a specific threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
The much bigger ramifications to perpetual recording of your habits is going to be the evolution once we are all on 5G. Digital patterns of life don't just tell technology companies what you're doing. Tradecraft -period - is about to become a whole lot more challenging. Not having a camera on your shit's going to be the least of your concerns.
Pretty much. The 10 lbs brains are trying to come up with TTPs but it’s gunna suck.

Also, why do I need a WiFi thermostats? So that I can warm my house 10 min before I get home. I can also track when contractors are, or aren’t, working when they’re suppose to be w/ WiFi door locks. And yes, I do need BT lights so they turn on when I get home. Everything is a trade off.
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