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  #101  
Old 24 February 2018, 14:20
meatpaws meatpaws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Before we get the pitchforks and torches out and head over to former Deputy Peterson's house, take a breath.

Take a breath. You. Put down the pitchfork.

You do not know the whole story. You were not there. You do not know what was put out on the radio, or what directives were issued.

Here is what I know so far.

1) Sheriff Scott Israel has stated publicly that Peterson failed to go in, as seen on video (according to Israel).

2) It's been reported that responding Coral Springs officers saw BCSO deputies outside the school, appearing to be in defensive positions.

Sheriff Israel has shown himself to be a politician, not a lawman. I believe that he is at significant political and civil liability risk for his past actions and policies while Sheriff. He has been pointing fingers and assigning blame from the very start of this incident. Peterson is now a convenient target.

Before anyone starts posting "I'd have gone in, even if I'd been ordered not to." That's called Monday-morning quarterbacking. You have the benefit of hindsight, and the situational awareness that comes with it.

Now, the important part. If you have never been in a gunfight, I don't want to hear what you would have done. If you have never been in a gunfight, you need to slow your roll on judging and branding Peterson a coward.

For those of you who have been in a gunfight and still want to dogpile on Peterson, you should still slow your roll. You don't have all of the information or situational awareness.

For all the cops that want to post "We go directly to the threat and neutralize it." Whatever. That sounds badass. Is that what you did the last time you were in a gunfight?
I have been ranting also, thanks for the wisdom Gavin. I have also been involved in a couple gunfights, but I donít know what was transpiring on the ground in Florida. Iíll cool down.

Unless everything we know now gets turned on itís ear ( which could happen ) my dirt-low opinion of Peterson stands. Our oath to protect and defend is something I hold seriously, and the ball was completely dropped. That doesnít come from a place of ďwell Iíd run in with a Glock in each hand and a flashbang in my teeth.Ē It comes from being trained to act when itís time to act. If at the very least youíre a bullet magnet so kids can run out of harms way.

Again, thanks for slowing the roll. My pitchfork was just about sharpened and I was rewrapping my torch.
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  #102  
Old 24 February 2018, 14:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET View Post
I have been in a gunfight or two, and I had my pitchfork out.

Your post was the voice of reason.

Well said.

Gavin - I agree with you on 99.9% of your post.
CPT A is right. You are always calm and the voice of reason on here.

Personally, IDGAF if I was told on the radio Team 6 was 2 minutes out. KIDS are being KILLED. I couldn't live with myself knowing that and hide behind a concrete pillar.

This guy was a pussy, mf'r.
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  #103  
Old 24 February 2018, 14:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
I agree with your entire post, well said. However I am still sketchy on the dude. But since I am one of the cops who posted to the above quote, I will answer. Yes that is absolutely what I and my team did, more than once. I canít speak for others but I was not, and am not, trying to chest thump and bloviate. I was merely speaking to my doubt of his refusal to go in being tied to a training issue.
I did not write that you are not entitled to your opinion and professional judgment, based on your training and experience. As to what you and your team did, more than once...based on what I am reading from all the cops in this thread, that is what you get paid to do, and exactly what each and every one of you, except Peterson, always does, anyway.

My experience has has been that when shit gets real, a lot of folks aren't quite what they would like to think themselves to be. Along the way, I also noticed that the biggest chest-thumpers in the briefing room and team room tend to be the ones that always find some other task to do when the metal starts to hit the meat.
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  #104  
Old 24 February 2018, 14:54
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I disagree and I'm the last person to MMQB. Furthermore, I've never been in a gunfight and yes I agree we don't know the whole context that led to him remaining outside. Finally, I don't think calling him a coward is necessary as his actions speak for themselves.

However, I believe you're asking the wrong question here. It's really not what we don't know, instead its what we know. We know at least 17 shots were fired in a high school with hundreds of students inside the building during the shooting. This is the known context. Unless it comes out that the deputy was unaware of the shots or somehow incapable of physically entering and engaging, what possible bit of information or circumstance can justify not entering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Before we get the pitchforks and torches out and head over to former Deputy Peterson's house, take a breath.

Take a breath. You. Put down the pitchfork.

You do not know the whole story. You were not there. You do not know what was put out on the radio, or what directives were issued.

Here is what I know so far.

1) Sheriff Scott Israel has stated publicly that Peterson failed to go in, as seen on video (according to Israel).

2) It's been reported that responding Coral Springs officers saw BCSO deputies outside the school, appearing to be in defensive positions.

Sheriff Israel has shown himself to be a politician, not a lawman. I believe that he is at significant political and civil liability risk for his past actions and policies while Sheriff. He has been pointing fingers and assigning blame from the very start of this incident. Peterson is now a convenient target.

Before anyone starts posting "I'd have gone in, even if I'd been ordered not to." That's called Monday-morning quarterbacking. You have the benefit of hindsight, and the situational awareness that comes with it.

Now, the important part. If you have never been in a gunfight, I don't want to hear what you would have done. If you have never been in a gunfight, you need to slow your roll on judging and branding Peterson a coward.

For those of you who have been in a gunfight and still want to dogpile on Peterson, you should still slow your roll. You don't have all of the information or situational awareness.

For all the cops that want to post "We go directly to the threat and neutralize it." Whatever. That sounds badass. Is that what you did the last time you were in a gunfight?
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  #105  
Old 24 February 2018, 15:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
My experience has has been that when shit gets real, a lot of folks aren't quite what they would like to think themselves to be. Along the way, I also noticed that the biggest chest-thumpers in the briefing room and team room tend to be the ones that always find some other task to do when the metal starts to hit the meat.
I could not agree with you more.
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  #106  
Old 24 February 2018, 15:28
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In Iraq I saw several guys with resumes heaping with badassary who suddenly had a family emergency to go back to CONUS after a convoy hit. And I'm talking hits that did not even require getting out for a gunfight. So I agree with those who point out that you will never know your reaction until you have to react.
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  #107  
Old 24 February 2018, 15:35
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  #108  
Old 24 February 2018, 15:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzmedic View Post
In Iraq I saw several guys with resumes heaping with badassary who suddenly had a family emergency to go back to CONUS after a convoy hit. And I'm talking hits that did not even require getting out for a gunfight. So I agree with those who point out that you will never know your reaction until you have to react.
If we're talking about contracting, I don't judge them for it. We had a guy decide enough was enough after a bad day. He was probably the smart one.
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  #109  
Old 24 February 2018, 15:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
Personally, IDGAF if I was told on the radio Team 6 was 2 minutes out. KIDS are being KILLED. I couldn't live with myself knowing that and hide behind a concrete pillar.
To pretty much directly quote the FLETC active shooter training: "Every shot fired is another dead kid."
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

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  #110  
Old 24 February 2018, 16:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
I could not agree with you more.
+1
I've seen quite a few in my time. I even saw a guy get a man with a gun type call where he was close, turn around and go the opposite direction...

The guy I wrote about with the rifle, was a loud bragger too. Before that incident, he asked me why I apparently didn't like him. (Guess I can't hide disgust well...) I told him he was loud, boisterous, and obnoxious and didn't know his ass from a hole... Sometimes I am too truthful and people don't know how to react...

People sometimes group others in this arena as either cops or soldiers... Please note there are those that actually did/do both.
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  #111  
Old 24 February 2018, 16:43
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Agree. Just about everything starts and ends with leadership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Before we get the pitchforks and torches out and head over to former Deputy Peterson's house, take a breath.

Take a breath. You. Put down the pitchfork.

You do not know the whole story. You were not there. You do not know what was put out on the radio, or what directives were issued.

Here is what I know so far.

1) Sheriff Scott Israel has stated publicly that Peterson failed to go in, as seen on video (according to Israel).

2) It's been reported that responding Coral Springs officers saw BCSO deputies outside the school, appearing to be in defensive positions.

Sheriff Israel has shown himself to be a politician, not a lawman. I believe that he is at significant political and civil liability risk for his past actions and policies while Sheriff. He has been pointing fingers and assigning blame from the very start of this incident. Peterson is now a convenient target.

Before anyone starts posting "I'd have gone in, even if I'd been ordered not to." That's called Monday-morning quarterbacking. You have the benefit of hindsight, and the situational awareness that comes with it.

Now, the important part. If you have never been in a gunfight, I don't want to hear what you would have done. If you have never been in a gunfight, you need to slow your roll on judging and branding Peterson a coward.

For those of you who have been in a gunfight and still want to dogpile on Peterson, you should still slow your roll. You don't have all of the information or situational awareness.

For all the cops that want to post "We go directly to the threat and neutralize it." Whatever. That sounds badass. Is that what you did the last time you were in a gunfight?
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  #112  
Old 24 February 2018, 16:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proeliator 37 View Post
If coming home alive at the end of your shift is your number one goal, above all else, this sort of thing happens.
Itís just sad and equally disappointing to see or hear of such cowardice.
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  #113  
Old 24 February 2018, 18:35
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I read an article that the coward, had a prior problem with this individual, an was scared of him but never reported it. Two other LEO are under investigation about him. an never turned in a report, as to what happened.
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  #114  
Old 24 February 2018, 18:36
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To me, if this Officer is so right as rain, why resign with the speed he did post incident?

I will make room that he immediately saw his errors, took the second best path for him and retired.

The above is very possible.

We can all speculate, but it bodes ill for the Officer in question.

Glad he is gone.
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  #115  
Old 24 February 2018, 19:13
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Per this most recent report, several failed to close with.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/24...port-says.html
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Last edited by Expatmedic; 24 February 2018 at 19:18. Reason: Remove speculative content.
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  #116  
Old 24 February 2018, 19:21
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The shit that is coming out below is two (2) reports I just received

CNN: Multiple Deputies Refused to Engage School Shooter

Yes, you read the headline correctly. CNN -- the same leftist media organ that staged the so-called 'townhall' with scripted questions as a setup to take down the NRA -- has suddenly discovered another news squirrel. Perhaps they've recognized the blowback. At any rate, Jake Tapper just blew up the story of the derelict Broward County Deputy to a galactic level. Sources are now reporting that the Coral Springs police arrived on the scene to find MULTIPLE deputies with "pistols drawn" and "behind their vehicles". That's when Coral Springs police immediately entered the building, albeit too late to save any of the 17 victims. If CNN is turning their fire from the NRA toward Broward County, it must be serious. Stay tuned.


Parkland Student Witnessed Deputy's Refusal to Enter School

The story of derelict deputies continues to unfold in Broward County, Florida. Not only has the internal email from Coral Springs Police Chief to his officers been released in which he promised the truth will come out, now a student recounts witnessing Deputy Peterson cowering behind a stairwell. Senior Brandon Huff got a text from his girlfriend inside the building alerting him to the shooting. Huff immediately ran toward the building. As he approached he saw Deputy Peterson crouched behind a staircase, "pointing his gun at just a building." When Coral Springs PD arrived, three other deputies had joined Peterson in doing 'absolutely nothing' while 17 people were being slaughtered.
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  #117  
Old 24 February 2018, 19:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
With the number of years this has been going on, every single officer out there has had time, much time, to consider what they would do under these circumstances, plan mentally, to take action... regardless of training.
I think this is a great point. I can't imagine anyone in the profession not pre-planning what they would do under circumstance X. As I told my kids when I was teaching them to drive, "If you assume that every other driver may do the most bizarre thing at any moment, and prepare yourself for that, you'll be a much safer driver".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proeliator 37 View Post
If coming home alive at the end of your shift is your number one goal, above all else, this sort of thing happens.
I've gotten into arguments with a few of our medics who state "safety is #1".
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatpaws View Post
I have a wife and a young boy to come home to.
I think if this is a person's primary objective, they should find a different job.
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  #118  
Old 24 February 2018, 19:38
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[QUOTE" When Coral Springs PD arrived, three other deputies had joined Peterson in doing 'absolutely nothing' while 17 people were being slaughtered.[/QUOTE]


Cowards, all of them. They failed at their primary task. Fuck them.
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  #119  
Old 24 February 2018, 20:28
Attila175 Attila175 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatmedic View Post
Per this most recent report, several failed to close with.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/24...port-says.html
When all deputies from the same agency acted in the same manner, their training should be looked into.

If they are all acting the same, my first three theories are, in order;
1. They followed training or a set plan.
2. The first or senior deputy set the tone. Others see him doing contain and wait and they follow his lead
3. They all just failed to act according to training and plans
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  #120  
Old 24 February 2018, 21:11
BigNickT BigNickT is online now
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If one officer refuses to do what is obviously required I think cowardice.

If four officers from the same agency refuse to do what is obviously required I think:
1) Bad policy
2) Bad training
3) Piss poor leadership
4) All of the above

Shame on this department for making SRO what appears to be a tailgate assignment.
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