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Old 18 December 2018, 12:00
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Rethinking Mental Health

Read a piece on Medium this morning that really got my attention. The writer is a veteran, and works with an organization called HeartSupport.

His position in this piece is that we spend too much time, money, and effort on the backend of mental health, only responding when someone is in a crisis. The problem with that is that when someone is in a mental health crisis, it usually involves them become a lethal danger to themselves and many others around them.

Mr. Sledge suggests that we are better served as people and a society if we put more effort into preventative maintenance, as it were. He and his wife go to occasional counseling sessions, not because they think their marriage is in trouble, but because they want an objective third-party to look them over and see where they stand.

It's not at all unlike what we are supposed to do with our physical health: go get occasional checkups so that you can get ahead of a problem before it's a real problem. I think we as a society need to work on understanding the concept that the brain is just another organ, and that like any organ, it needs occasional care to make sure it's functioning properly.

At any rate, I thought some people here might appreciate this article.

The Way We View Mental Health is Backwards and Absurd
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Old 18 December 2018, 12:12
AKAPete AKAPete is offline
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Care must be taken if you're a normal person when talking with others about your possible issues.
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Old 18 December 2018, 12:27
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Wow. I read that a couple of months back. It is a good article. and his basic idea applies across a broad spectrum of mental issues.

Now when I say "mental issues" I mean it could be a diagnosis that is commonly know as bad, like paranoid schizophrenia or down at the bottom, just folks simply not adapted to society and norms properly.

I had a friend that I had known since we were 12. Played football together and ran track. Same schools, same neighborhoods, etc. I went to the .MIL and learned discipline to control myself. He didn't.

When I got out and become a cop (and found him to start up again) I was the guy he called when he got in trouble.

He was a good dude but not "socialized" right. I don't know how else to describe it. And we were so young (even me in my 20's) couldn't understand WHY he made such bad decisions. maybe slight depression, I don't know.

And its not just the far gone, mentally ill. The world is full of these folks who either can't take proper socialization or never learned. And small mental illness (lets say a low grade depression) turns into bad bad things for them and others.

My friend was a good dude (I believe) in a mediocre to bad spot (but we all were on the SW side of Chicago in the early 80s). But he just couldn't get out of his own way. I often wonder what would've happened if someone (even me) could have got him off the track he was on...

Lou (my friend) died in a bar in a far suburb of Chicago over what seemed to be a 10 dollar bet on darts game... Reports were he was drunk and screaming that the whole bar was against him... Running up his bill, cheating in darts, stealing things from his car., then it got violent.

A great athlete in high school, regular PHYSICAL checkups because of it, played ball for a year at a D2 school... then kicked out, but completely "not right"....
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Last edited by t10Guy; 18 December 2018 at 12:39.
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Old 18 December 2018, 12:33
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Preventive maintenance on your car or your body is normally cheaper and less bothersome than corrective maintenance after a breakdown has occurred. It makes sense that the brain would be the same way.
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Old 18 December 2018, 12:38
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Agree. We as a nation are not proactive when it comes to mental health. Hell, it's only been in the last 5-10 years that we can talk about it.

Say the wrong word and you can be involuntarily held for 72 hours. Again, say the wrong word and they can hold you longer.
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Last edited by Expatmedic; 18 December 2018 at 12:43.
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Old 18 December 2018, 14:53
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See: ACA thread. Managed care and changes to insurance have all but eliminated prospective, preventive psychiatric care; now, most of it is medication and crisis management. While many pysch issues must be treated medicinally, many can be mitigated with counseling, non-medical therapy, etc., but the lack of providers and beds have resulted in throwing pills at the problem.
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Old 18 December 2018, 16:31
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Devildoc, just like in the other thread, none of that matters. The real issue is loss of freedoms.

Blame all the insurance companies and others, but it's the gov who set the playing field up. When we had less gov intrusions, we had very little of these issues.
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Old 18 December 2018, 17:05
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Devildoc, just like in the other thread, none of that matters. The real issue is loss of freedoms.

Blame all the insurance companies and others, but it's the gov who set the playing field up. When we had less gov intrusions, we had very little of these issues.
Yes, the .gov is the impetus of the whole all-things-medicine debacle; it just shape-shifts the blame. The increasingly little freedom we have to maneuver within healthcare correlates to increasingly little freedom we have to maneuver with anything else in the past 75 years of increasing governmental overreach. The gov, insurance, managed care, pharmaceuticals, it's all a Gordian knot.
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Old 18 December 2018, 17:09
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Exactly. None of the debate on how to fix any type of healthcare is going to amount to anything as we don't have the freedom to choose and our elected representatives aren't going to do a thing about it.
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Old 18 December 2018, 17:13
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Maybe I'm confused. Is the idea that everyone, even those without mental issues, should go see a shrink to make sure they don't have any mental health issues? It seems like this would open a lot of doors that might be better closed. I think sometimes the medical profession (not specific doctors) makes mountains out of molehills.
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Old 18 December 2018, 17:18
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Originally Posted by Silverbullet View Post
Exactly. None of the debate on how to fix any type of healthcare is going to amount to anything as we don't have the freedom to choose and our elected representatives aren't going to do a thing about it.
If I implied here or elsewhere that the healthcare industry is autonomous from gov control or overreach, that's on me; that's not what I meant to imply. I fully know who is in charge, and ultimately, who has to fix it (or be fixed to fix it?). Ultimately with insurance, managed care, etc., it's just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic....
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Old 18 December 2018, 17:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAPete View Post
Care must be taken if you're a normal person when talking with others about your possible issues.
And even greater care must be taken if one has friends with legit minor issues that could be easily and discretely mitigated, but they are unwilling to gamble on the potential loss of freedoms incurred by seeking help. There isn’t a good choice, just the least bad of several consequences.

Even minor issues can wind up making you like the country dog in the city - “for your own good” they’ll chew your ass up if you run, and they’ll rape you if you stand still. Your choice...
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Old 18 December 2018, 17:33
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And even greater care must be taken if one has friends with legit minor issues that could be easily and discretely mitigated, but they are unwilling to gamble on the potential loss of freedoms incurred by seeking help. There isn’t a good choice, just the least bad of several consequences.

Even minor issues can wind up making you like the country dog in the city - “for your own good” they’ll chew your ass up if you run, and they’ll rape you if you stand still. Your choice...
another symptom of the nanny State, we know what's best for you. This is been getting worse with linking known psychiatric problems with possible worst-case outcomes, curtailing rights, rights to own guns, to have a driver's license, so live where you want.
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Old 18 December 2018, 19:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Maybe I'm confused. Is the idea that everyone, even those without mental issues, should go see a shrink to make sure they don't have any mental health issues? It seems like this would open a lot of doors that might be better closed. I think sometimes the medical profession (not specific doctors) makes mountains out of molehills.
Western Medicine specializes in that very thing-> MTN's Via Molehills.

I wouldn't dare tell my inner most thoughts to a "health professional". No way, no how.
I would go see them to help me on a given issue if I had need. I've done so before, and they simply helped me see the forest while looking at trees. Which is what they do well.

But that is not the issue here. The issue is the mental health of those that have issues and do not seek care. And they are legion.
For the most part, I think most MH issues begin early and at home while still being parented (or not parented) while in childhood development.

And I think many MH issues are nurtured with a side of genetics.

No one is going to reach these people. And they aren't going to reach out either. They'll 'off' themselves, or others and there isn't much that can be done about it.
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Old 19 December 2018, 17:24
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Western Medicine specializes in that very thing-> MTN's Via Molehills.

I wouldn't dare tell my inner most thoughts to a "health professional". No way, no how.
I would go see them to help me on a given issue if I had need. I've done so before, and they simply helped me see the forest while looking at trees. Which is what they do well.

But that is not the issue here. The issue is the mental health of those that have issues and do not seek care. And they are legion.
For the most part, I think most MH issues begin early and at home while still being parented (or not parented) while in childhood development.

And I think many MH issues are nurtured with a side of genetics.

No one is going to reach these people. And they aren't going to reach out either. They'll 'off' themselves, or others and there isn't much that can be done about it.
Your post.

Same here as far as myself. I go every 90 days. I warned them...you don't want to go too far inside my head. Do I tell everything to the doc? Fuuuuuuccccck No. Why = Privacy concerns. Already been addressed.

Son of a Bitch don't even look me in the fucking eye. That irks the shit out of me. I bet he couldn't pick me out of a lineup.

I agree on the genetic part of it. I've seen it myself on the spouse unit's side of the family.

There is no big government fix to it nor should be. But I bet one is coming.

My favorite and best counselor is my dog. She listens to all my problems and gives me the best advice. She looks me in the eye too.
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Old 19 December 2018, 18:44
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Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
Your post.

Same here as far as myself. I go every 90 days. I warned them...you don't want to go too far inside my head. Do I tell everything to the doc? Fuuuuuuccccck No. Why = Privacy concerns. Already been addressed.

Son of a Bitch don't even look me in the fucking eye. That irks the shit out of me. I bet he couldn't pick me out of a lineup.

I agree on the genetic part of it. I've seen it myself on the spouse unit's side of the family.

There is no big government fix to it nor should be. But I bet one is coming.

My favorite and best counselor is my dog. She listens to all my problems and gives me the best advice. She looks me in the eye too.
Had to steal that Sig line material there. That'uns a Beauty!
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Old 19 December 2018, 18:47
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And I think you're right on the money Top. That latest New York fiasco/proposal about turning over your Social Media sounds right inline with your thoughts.
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Old 20 December 2018, 09:33
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If you want to have some fun with your head Doctor... turn the table on em. Throw some TOOL shit out there.

So Doc...do you agree with Carl Yung or Sidney Freud on "The Theory of Unconsciousness".
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