July 2018 Anaheim Axon Vid

[Polypro]

Anyone see this vid of a 2 man car going after a "man with a gun acting erratically" ? Holy sweet jesus.

YouTube>Active Self Protection Channel.

Guest commentary from a Kansas swat cop.

[WGH0922]

My daughter and her man friend came down yesterday and he asked me if I heard about this incident, which I hadn't. He gave me the 5 W's and said that while their initial reaction to use deadly force was correct, everything thereafter was a shit show. Here's a link.

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/05/0...-neighborhood/

[Believeraz]

Originally Posted by Polypro

Guest commentary from a Kansas swat cop.

Chuck is someone I highly respect in the LEO/use of force world. He's a solid trainer and expert at his craft. His perspective is always worth paying attention to.

[dustyrebel]

That's probably the second or third video I've seen this year with officers shooting through their own windshield.....is this a new thing that's being taught? Serious question.

[Mars]

I have a friend that is alive today because he put some well-aimed shots into the bad guy through his own windshield. It has applications and will continue to come up when dealing with thugs. Whether or not it is being routinely being *taught* -- I don't know, but it should be addressed because it does happen.

[Dino0311]

I'd say it's taught in a counter ambush sense more than this kind of thing. Guys have done it successfully. One of my buddies did it while pursuing a guy who was firing a shotgun at him (took at least one pellet to the vest). The dude was so riddled with bullets at the end I don't even know if an attempt was made to figure out who hit him when. I always wear eye protection at work and that's one reason why. I'd hate to fire a weapon inside a cruiser though.

[Sharky]

Originally Posted by Massgrunt

I'd say it's taught in a counter ambush sense more than this kind of thing.

Yep. This technique (to my knowledge) originated in training for counter-ambush situations in higher risk OCONUS areas.

Originally Posted by Massgrunt

I'd hate to fire a weapon inside a cruiser though.

That is no shit. Probably permanent damage.

[KS11]

Originally Posted by Massgrunt

I always wear eye protection at work and that's one reason why. I'd hate to fire a weapon inside a cruiser though.

Originally Posted by Sharky

That is no shit. Probably permanent damage.

Just wear ear pro for your entire shift...just in case.

[Whitebean54]

Originally Posted by KS11

Just wear ear pro for your entire shift...just in case.

I keep ears on the passenger seat.

[Dino0311]

I keep hearing protection with me but not accessible while driving. But having a lot of hearing loss already is a definite advantage lol

[Polypro]

From a previous thread on this (I think Sharky said it? Vegas chase?), apparently (like that Kansas guy said) - at 'hood ornament' distance it can work - or if you make a hole that they can sail thorough unmolested. But due to angle of glass, in to out deflects up, and out to in deflects down. In this case, I'd be more concerned with the 67 rounds that didn't connect, bouncing around Anaheim. Driver got fired.

I don't recall any "perceived" hearing damage from firing the SAW out of the Trail Vehicle (Lexan "Camper Top") or out of the front navigator seat - never remember any ringing? Maybe it damaged my memory too. Does Auditory Exclusion actually prevent damage?

[gavin]

Originally Posted by Polypro

Does Auditory Exclusion actually prevent damage?

Umm...no.

There's no such thing as "perceived hearing damage." Sort of like "perceived death" or "perceived pregnancy."

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by gavin

Umm...no.

There's no such thing as "perceived hearing damage." Sort of like "perceived death" or "perceived pregnancy."

If I shoot, and my ears aren't ringing, and I can hear fine - that's the perception I'm talking about. "Briefness" may have played a part too - I accept there was damage none the less.

[gavin]

Originally Posted by Polypro

If I shoot, and my ears aren't ringing, and I can hear fine - that's the perception I'm talking about. "Briefness" may have played a part too - I accept there was damage none the less.

If you torched off a M249 in enclosed space without hearing pro, even a single round, you've likely got some permanent hearing loss. If you made a habit of it, you likely have substantial hearing loss.

Kinda like me...bothers me that everyone mumbles these days, and that manufacturers only make blurry sights for weapons...but there's nothing wrong with my hearing or vision.

[FinsUp]

Originally Posted by Believeraz

Chuck is someone I highly respect in the LEO/use of force world. He's a solid trainer and expert at his craft. His perspective is always worth paying attention to.

Chuck is good friend of mine. Solid dude with a good perspective. He did a single officer response to active shooter class for us last year. Good shit.

[Dino0311]

I've fired rifles and SAWs out of a pickup truck with no hearing protection on but all the windows were open except for probably the driver's. Still a terrible idea but not as bad as all the windows closed and firing within the vehicle.

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by Massgrunt

I've fired rifles and SAWs out of a pickup truck with no hearing protection on but all the windows were open except for probably the driver's. Still a terrible idea but not as bad as all the windows closed and firing within the vehicle.

Yup, same trucks probably. SAW muzzle was over the Tailgate, outside in the wind, as was the rifle's from the front seat. All windows open except for Tommy's or Steve's. I swear - I don't remember any "ringing" (We did wear ear-pro though, when we practiced at the range on Arlington).

I do have damage (Tinnitus), but that started in '86. That cop firing that pistol though - yeah, bet that was loud AF.

[gavin]

Originally Posted by Massgrunt

I've fired rifles and SAWs out of a pickup truck with no hearing protection on but all the windows were open except for probably the driver's. Still a terrible idea but not as bad as all the windows closed and firing within the vehicle.

A much more terrible idea would have been not returning fire.

[bobmueller]

Oklahoma HP had a case a while back, pursuing a double murder suspect who'd also shot two cops. They had air support verifying that the road ahead was empty. The pursuing trooper made the decision to fire his carbine through the windshield. He had the gun braced at the corner of the windshield and dash and put about 50 rounds out. I don't know that he actually hit the guy, but he got the truck stopped, and they engaged him there and killed him. But that was a lonely county road out west of BFE, Oklahoma, not a residential neighborhood.

[Whitebean54]

Originally Posted by bobmueller

Oklahoma HP had a case a while back, pursuing a double murder suspect who'd also shot two cops. They had air support verifying that the road ahead was empty. The pursuing TROOPER made the decision to fire his carbine through the windshield. He had the gun braced at the corner of the windshield and dash and put about 50 rounds out. I don't know that he actually hit the guy, but he got the truck stopped, and they engaged him there and killed him. But that was a lonely county road out west of BFE, Oklahoma, not a residential neighborhood.

Fixed it for you

On a serious note, he did connect with the guy several times. IIRC, Suspect got out and either the truck was in neutral/reverse and was trying to use it as cover. The calvary showed up and someone popped him with a string of full auto(yeah yeah yeah I know) well he was out of the vehicle.

It’s been some time since I’ve seen the video but he was Trooper if the Year at some point since.