SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > U.S. Marine Corps Special Operations > Recon Marines

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 21 January 2020, 22:43
WGH0922 WGH0922 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,552
As I said in the OP, her first real test will come when she joins her team. Just like I told my students when I ran the schoolhouse, "It's harder to stay here than it is to get here." She still has Airborne, Combatant Dive and SERE to go at a minimum, add on MMPS, HALO/HAHO and being told to "slide over the side" at 2300 on a cold February night in 'Sea State 4' 2km from the beach and swim her ass and 90lb ruck to the beach. And that's just to start on a 5-10 day patrol. Standing on the ramp of a C-130 at 25k' MSL at night is no time for vaginitis. Not to mention an 18 month workup that is nothing short of brutal. I wish her luck but just like they say in the gym, "300 lbs is still, 300 fucking lbs and that 300 lbs has to move."
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 21 January 2020, 23:20
PJ1's Avatar
PJ1 PJ1 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Pararescue team
Posts: 393
This is my argument. I’m not saying that they can’t do it, they can. I can’t. Why? I was brought up that women are the weaker sex, hold the door open for a lady, don’t hit a woman, Protect them. Until I can tell my son to treat a woman just like a man. It’ll never be fair. I’ve had 2 situations where I tried to protect a woman to my own detriment.
__________________
Living the dream!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 21 January 2020, 23:36
1RiserSlip's Avatar
1RiserSlip 1RiserSlip is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Po Dunk, WV
Posts: 8,666
I don’t have the words. I feel your pain maybe?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 22 January 2020, 12:15
Shark0311 Shark0311 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 1,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by WGH0922 View Post
As I said in the OP, her first real test will come when she joins her team. Just like I told my students when I ran the schoolhouse, "It's harder to stay here than it is to get here." She still has Airborne, Combatant Dive and SERE to go at a minimum, add on MMPS, HALO/HAHO and being told to "slide over the side" at 2300 on a cold February night in 'Sea State 4' 2km from the beach and swim her ass and 90lb ruck to the beach. And that's just to start on a 5-10 day patrol. Standing on the ramp of a C-130 at 25k' MSL at night is no time for vaginitis. Not to mention an 18 month workup that is nothing short of brutal. I wish her luck but just like they say in the gym, "300 lbs is still, 300 fucking lbs and that 300 lbs has to move."
I think that this is the only thing that matters and should be decided at the platoon / team level. We've had plenty of experienced guys get sent to the dive locker or boat locker for not maintaining the standard, be it from injury or by their own actions.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 22 January 2020, 14:02
Xdeth's Avatar
Xdeth Xdeth is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Boston, MA <->Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 5,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark0311 View Post
I think that this is the only thing that matters and should be decided at the platoon / team level. We've had plenty of experienced guys get sent to the dive locker or boat locker for not maintaining the standard, be it from injury or by their own actions.
This is what I was getting at, personality conflicts must account for 10X the number of issues people get into vs performance. In fact it often seems highly correlated. I am imagining how savage that could get once at a company. *cringe.
__________________
"First, decide who you would be. Then, do what you must do." -Epictetus
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 22 January 2020, 14:36
Mars Mars is offline
Renuo Victima Esse
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shadow Gallery
Posts: 8,736
We shall surely see how well things go when she has to truly start to live the grunt life. It's different....
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 22 January 2020, 15:15
The Fat Guy's Avatar
The Fat Guy The Fat Guy is offline
Hard to Kill
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Getting off the lawn.
Posts: 15,748
Obviously a huge difference btx the schoolhouse, where you know that they cannot knowingly kill you while meting a pre-determined standard and that there is a definite start and stop time and an operational environment where you have to do what needs done, regardless of the difficulty. And that it may never end or kill you.
__________________
No one will take better care of us, than us: Suicide Hotline: 1-800-273-8255
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 22 January 2020, 22:50
WGH0922 WGH0922 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
Obviously a huge difference btx the schoolhouse, where you know that they cannot knowingly kill you while meting a pre-determined standard and that there is a definite start and stop time and an operational environment where you have to do what needs done, regardless of the difficulty. And that it may never end or kill you.
Exactly. Just like when I was a DI/SDI. You (the Recruit/Recon Student) either meet the standard or you don't. When I was an SDI I had a lot more leeway on shitcanning people. When I was running the schoolhouse I had a foreign stud who failed the swim test. When I was told, "He can't be dropped" by the Navy N-5, Int'l Student Division. 8 weeks later during 'Amphib Phase' this dude went tits up during a Combat Hydro and was frothing blood. We performed life saving measures, transported him to Balboa NavHosp and 4 weeks later he was at graduation. I was livid with my CO and OIC, for putting me and my instructors in that position. He didn't complete the course and I sent him back to Shangri- La with an attendance cert, not a grad cert. Just like the fuckhead students I saw at Ranger and MFF.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 23 January 2020, 09:18
1RiserSlip's Avatar
1RiserSlip 1RiserSlip is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Po Dunk, WV
Posts: 8,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by WGH0922 View Post
Exactly. Just like when I was a DI/SDI. You (the Recruit/Recon Student) either meet the standard or you don't. When I was an SDI I had a lot more leeway on shitcanning people. When I was running the schoolhouse I had a foreign stud who failed the swim test. When I was told, "He can't be dropped" by the Navy N-5, Int'l Student Division. 8 weeks later during 'Amphib Phase' this dude went tits up during a Combat Hydro and was frothing blood. We performed life saving measures, transported him to Balboa NavHosp and 4 weeks later he was at graduation. I was livid with my CO and OIC, for putting me and my instructors in that position. He didn't complete the course and I sent him back to Shangri- La with an attendance cert, not a grad cert. Just like the fuckhead students I saw at Ranger and MFF.
Just re-enforcing your last 3 words. Yup. I saw it in both but not so much Ft. Benning. I ran a small company my last year or so active duty. I billeted and graded ALL foreign students APFT’s before sending them to their respective schools. Failed many. Impressed by many. But my word wasn’t questioned.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 23 January 2020, 12:33
WGH0922 WGH0922 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
Just re-enforcing your last 3 words. Yup. I saw it in both but not so much Ft. Benning. I ran a small company my last year or so active duty. I billeted and graded ALL foreign students APFT’s before sending them to their respective schools. Failed many. Impressed by many. But my word wasn’t questioned.
Yep. I had a ROK Marine and a Filipino FR Marine who were both badasses and very professional. Most countries won't send a student 8k miles to embarrass themselves/their unit. Egypt is another story. At MFF Chico Chacon body slammed Captain Mohammad on the steal deck of a C-212 after dipshit popped his reserve inside the aircraft. He still graduated.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 23 January 2020, 18:49
1RiserSlip's Avatar
1RiserSlip 1RiserSlip is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Po Dunk, WV
Posts: 8,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by WGH0922 View Post
Yep. I had a ROK Marine and a Filipino FR Marine who were both badasses and very professional. Most countries won't send a student 8k miles to embarrass themselves/their unit. Egypt is another story. At MFF Chico Chacon body slammed Captain Mohammad on the steal deck of a C-212 after dipshit popped his reserve inside the aircraft. He still graduated.
My problem was the Turks. At Benning and 1 danger to everyone in MFF.

Sorry for the derail.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 29 April 2020, 05:09
UltraSD UltraSD is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22
Since this is about her passing BRC, here's my 2 cents as an ARS 494 grad. First off, all training changed drastically after the Ranger School trainees died in a swamp in FL back in '95. For the next 3 years I watched in shock/disgust as RIP and BRC churned out weaker grads. I even had to rescue two new BRC grads from drowning during a simple helocast off Onslow. Over the last 20 years warfighter kit and tactics have gotten more gucci, but the training is way less intense.

Back around that same '95 timeframe we had a 'WM' try out for the indoc at Onslow. She even came with a civilian author in tow to document her recon pathway. The story went that she was some kind of Olympic athlete and she could do 100 quality p/u without difficulty. Yeah...she made it through less than a week of RIP. Simple green side swampy patrolling knocked her out. Tonight, I coincidentally watched a Discovery clip on the indoc from 2016, and all I could do was smh sadly.

Now for another side of this for perspective. Post 9/11, I worked a bit overseas with foreign SOF bubbas and whenever this topic of 'female SOF' came up over the years those men stated it best when they asked me: "why would you guys think this is a good thing?" Yeah, I know the answer...but this forced acceptance isn't really about promotions or equality. It's about agenda. The people pushing that agenda have never been on a 7-man deep recon team in a foreign country with no QRF backup on a must succeed mission. Warfare is supposed to be about sending our absolute best warriors into missions to get the best, most unfair results against any enemy. Today, we stack the deck with combined arms, UAVs, snipers, and NVG to have every possible advantage before we engage. I could go on but I won't. This is not an advantage and every 03xx knows it.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 29 April 2020, 08:19
8654maine 8654maine is offline
Rage against the machine
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraSD View Post
Since this is about her passing BRC, here's my 2 cents as an ARS 494 grad. First off, all training changed drastically after the Ranger School trainees died in a swamp in FL back in '95. For the next 3 years I watched in shock/disgust as RIP and BRC churned out weaker grads. I even had to rescue two new BRC grads from drowning during a simple helocast off Onslow. Over the last 20 years warfighter kit and tactics have gotten more gucci, but the training is way less intense.

Back around that same '95 timeframe we had a 'WM' try out for the indoc at Onslow. She even came with a civilian author in tow to document her recon pathway. The story went that she was some kind of Olympic athlete and she could do 100 quality p/u without difficulty. Yeah...she made it through less than a week of RIP. Simple green side swampy patrolling knocked her out. Tonight, I coincidentally watched a Discovery clip on the indoc from 2016, and all I could do was smh sadly.

Now for another side of this for perspective. Post 9/11, I worked a bit overseas with foreign SOF bubbas and whenever this topic of 'female SOF' came up over the years those men stated it best when they asked me: "why would you guys think this is a good thing?" Yeah, I know the answer...but this forced acceptance isn't really about promotions or equality. It's about agenda. The people pushing that agenda have never been on a 7-man deep recon team in a foreign country with no QRF backup on a must succeed mission. Warfare is supposed to be about sending our absolute best warriors into missions to get the best, most unfair results against any enemy. Today, we stack the deck with combined arms, UAVs, snipers, and NVG to have every possible advantage before we engage. I could go on but I won't. This is not an advantage and every 03xx knows it.
Man, you sound like me when I heard of this as well, you dinosaur.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 29 April 2020, 09:00
Gray Rhyno's Avatar
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is online now
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NoVa
Posts: 10,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by VMI_Marine View Post
Of the 45 on active duty, 29 are assigned to Victor units.
I wonder what the other 16 are doing? That's less than 2/3rds in a deploying billet.
__________________
"The most HSLD stuff ever taught was the basics. So-called 'advanced training' is often no more than the very fluid and expert application of those basic skills." - SOTB
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 29 April 2020, 12:39
CAP MARINE's Avatar
CAP MARINE CAP MARINE is offline
0311/8651
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 3,843
Nothing like you guys, different times.
“All alone in Indian Country “
CAP platoons-no room for females in Nam.
__________________
Guy "Landmine” Melton
Deputy Sheriff(Ret)
Hold my beer...George Washington
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 29 April 2020, 12:40
Xdeth's Avatar
Xdeth Xdeth is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Boston, MA <->Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 5,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAP MARINE View Post
Nothing like you guys, different times.
“All alone in Indian Country “
CAP platoons-no room for females in Nam.
what about the other side, anyone ever killed by a female VC or NVA ?
__________________
"First, decide who you would be. Then, do what you must do." -Epictetus
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 29 April 2020, 14:06
CAP MARINE's Avatar
CAP MARINE CAP MARINE is offline
0311/8651
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 3,843
Oh I’m sure. Our RTO took a sniper round.
__________________
Guy "Landmine” Melton
Deputy Sheriff(Ret)
Hold my beer...George Washington
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:44.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2020